The Challenge of Sundering the Elves

Alex Long said:
And frankly, we can have elven cultures that don't appreciate women. What the heck happened to Eol as a child that made so Eol-y?
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I have long thought that Eol's attitude towards his wife may have been informed by the influence of the dwarves, a culture which appears to keep their women under some fairly intense lock and key. I do want to get into this discussion in more detail, but alas, I have no time.
 
Nicholas Palazzo said:
I have long thought that Eol's attitude towards his wife may have been informed by the influence of the dwarves, a culture which appears to keep their women under some fairly intense lock and key. I do want to get into this discussion in more detail, but alas, I have no time.
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But I don't think Eol was raised by dwarves, was he?
 
Halstein said:
Hi.
I think that even if the husband is the "outward face" of the family, and thus get mentioned in the histories, he would debate with his wife. We can show scenes of the home where issues are discussed. If women weren't asked for counsel we wouldn't had the adage "Cold are the counsels of women". The saga-literature, which is one of the things that inspired Tolkien, have plenty of wives counseling their husbands.
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Indeed, Fëanor's wife was the only one who could offer him counsel, and I do think it important for us to see some domestic scene with the two of them in particular...and then later when some of the other wives refuse to go with their Noldorin husbands into exile. The women will very much be there and be on screen...which means we only have to decide how much they are going to speak up and in what context...and what they will have to say. With the sundering of the elves being such a thoroughly important issue to convey, it seems necessary to show these decisions from multiple angles (public, private, male, female, leaders, commoners, etc).

"For Fëanor was driven by the fire of his own heart only, working ever swiftly and alone; and he asked the aid and sought the counsel of none that dwelt in Aman, great or small, save only and for a little while of Nerdanel the wise, his wife."
 
I do tend to think that the Vanyar would have a more structured society because of the closer relationship they have with the Valar. Structured doesn’t mean patriarchal, and doesn’t necessarily mean highly hierarchical in the sense of having different levels of society. But there is a hierarchy in Valinor, with the Valar at the top, the Maiar, next, and then the elves, and the Vanyar would have to be very aware of that hierarchy and very accepting of it to live so deep within Valinor. They strike me as being very accepting of authority and generally happy with the order of things in Valinor; you can’t really imagine them starting a revolt, or harboring any real desire to return to Middle-Earth. They also are probably conscious of their position as the fairest of elves and those most favored by the Valar, and might feel a bit superior about it (though they probably don’t overtly show it very much).


I see the Noldor as a bit less structured. There is some hierarchy there, but also a lot of room for individual action. Searching for gems, making things, and exploring Aman seeking knowledge would tend to be more solitary pursuits. Melkor would encourage these individualistic tendencies for his own purposes after his release, in order to undermine the relationship between the Noldor and the Valar, but he is playing off something that was already there. Noldor society would also be changed later by the return to Middle-Earth, perhaps becoming more patriarchal and more hierarchical because of the demands of war with Morgoth.


We also need to not only reflect for the viewers the differences among the various groups of elves, but also indicate how those differences develop over time. I don’t think we have the six groups emerge fully formed and distinct in Cuivienen, but rather they are changed by what happens to them. Do we want to suggest that it is the Calaquendi who change most, because of their long journey and their contact with the Valar? Or are those who stay behind changed more because of the influence of Morgoth in Middle-Earth and the need to fight his creatures (which presumably they were doing long before the Noldor returned)? I think the changes caused by the journey to Valinor will be most prominent, because our story will focus on those making the journey, but our choices here would impact how we portray that journey.
 
I think that this short essay on the groupings of the elves may be useful for what we are trying to do here - to differentiate each group, not just by visual cues (the Vanyar are blond!), but by different stances and attitudes that are typical of each group and will thus tie into the evolving plot. It also clearly lays out the sources of contention and distrust among the various groups, based on Tolkien's essay 'Quendi and Eldar'

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/namecalling.php

Some of this won't matter until the 4th season (with the return of the Noldor), but I think it's good to consider now.
 
combomap.jpg


I thought the above map might be helpful for those trying to follow the path of elvish migration. Of course Cuivienen isn't on this map, but, well....it's somewhere in the East, possibly far off this map. And the sea of Helcar it presumably gone, so even if the original site of Cuivienen *were* on this map, we wouldn't be able to see it.
 
tumblr_o8dwiaTNmD1u29mglo1_1280.jpg

And then I did this with it :p

I had a nicer one in Powerpoint with timed animations, but this site is not terribly upload-friendly, so I redid it in MS Paint and then posted it on tumblr so I could link it here.
 
I see that map go around a lot but Beleriand isn't scaled properly to Third Age Middle Earth; Beleriand should be smaller. I made the following map a few years back as a rough draft where I had planned on redrawing the whole thing my hand, to make a more consistent and nicer version (haha, like I have tome to ever do that, hence why only this rough exists).

arda_map01_WIP01sm.jpg

Europe is also there because I was trying to get a sense of scale to real life and to establish the degree of differences in climates in Middle Earth using our world as a guide.

But yeah I could be wrong, but I was fairly meticulous about getting the scales to match when I made it, comparing multiple maps, including Tolkien's own many map drafts.
 
I was thinking about this again, and one way to 'call out' cultural differences to an audience is to make use of nonverbal communication.

For instance, we can easily identify gestures in our culture that mean:

Greeting/Farewell
Yes/No
Come Here/Stop
(Etc.)

Slight variations on this can help to call out different cultural groups, with the added addition of stuff like acknowledging a lord (bow, kneel, arm across the chest?)
It can also help to give continuity across the seasons if we see similar gestures repeated by different characters representing the same group.


Peter Jackson played it for laughs when he had Aragorn start by greeting Haldir in the more formal 'elvish' way, and them embrace him in a 'human' greeting to Haldir's consternation. The 'these are two different cultures' is laid on pretty thick in this scene, but I think we need some touches like these as visual cues to help the audience out.

For instance, let's say the Edain have a custom of a man kissing his children on the forehead before riding out to war/battle (just as an example). The first time we'll see this gesture will be in the opening scene of season 1 episode 1 when Arathorn quickly kisses little toddler Aragorn on the forehead while saying farewell to Gilraen and hurriedly getting ready to ride out. We won't see it again until we meet the Edain in Season 4, but we'll see it (say) multiple times there - Húrin's farewell to Túrin, for instance, and maybe Huor even stoops to kiss Rían's belly, and that's how the audience figures out she's pregnant. Whenever anyone goes back to rewatch, there will be an 'ahah!' moment in the opening of 'The Dunedain are connected to the Edain.'

If we use a lot of such visual cues, we can help the audience keep these people groups straight.
 
While I feel that only the most perceptive of viewers would consciously pick up on details like that, I do think that it would significantly alter the feel of the different cultures.

For example (Some of these are particular to different time periods):

The Feanorians: Very martial in their gestures and greetings. Right-handed fist across the chest as a greeting ... then without saying a word about it, left-handed after Maedhros recovers from his injury on the walls of Thangordrim.

The Gondolindrim: Courtly, and ceremonial.

The Sindarin of Doriath: Also courtly, but less regimented.

The Green-Elves: Very informal.
 
We can go beyond gestures -- even the manner of walking, and the way they move or don't move their hands during, can give distinction and cultural clues. A certain Russian president famously walks with his right hand still and by his hip at all time. It's apparently from his previous career's training: he's keeping one hand by his gun at all times.
So going with a martial feel to the Feanorians, we can modify this so that their right hand (err... left for Maedros, eventually) is always near a sword, or where a sword would be, if they happen to be unarmed (something I don't imagine happens very often). They might also lead with the left foot, in case they suddenly have to draw their blade.*

The Gondolindrim, by contrast, might not move their hands much at all when they walk, but their hands are in front of them, sort of "resting" on their thighs. It's artificial and practiced, but elegant like a dancer. Their steps could be smaller than the Feanorians, with an unhurried air, allowing tighter, less practical robes (if we go with that look for them). I don't mean skintight, just long skirts that aren't particularly billowing, and don't allow large movements.'

*Edit: err... that probably should be right foot, since, of course, their swords will hang from their left hips. I still think we could play with the right hand hovering near the hilt: it would be a not-strict 90 degree angle, with the biceps falling straight down and the forearm crossing the torso towards the left hip. It's weird, but you can walk like that, and it certainly would be distinctive!
 
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...and of course all the Houses of Gondolin need to have gang signs that they throw up....I'm KIDDING, sorry!

But yes, agreed, lots of little distinctions won't be individually noticed, but all together will help shape these cultures. [PJ's super-regimented elves of Lorien certainly stand out, for instance]
 
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