Turgon's Halls in Vinyamar


Well-Known Member
A lot of the discussion early in today's session (4.16) focused on the storyline of Turgon in Middle-earth, and how his throne room at Vinyamar reflects where he is and where he will be going.

So, a few salient details -
  • An open - air concept, so that there is no wall closing off the throne room from the view of the Sea.
  • Throne facing west, looking at where they came from (quite literally)
  • Simple/modest stone throne, built into the building (not a movable chair).
  • Statue of Elenwë built into the wall (not quite bas relief, not quite a free-standing statue) at Turgon's left hand.
  • Idril stands by the throne on Turgon's right hand. (Later, this will be where the armor will be left behind).
It was a rather lengthy discussion, so feel free to check out the podcast for the reasoning behind some of these choices and what story we're trying to tell with Turgon in Middle-earth, starting here and continuing in Gondolin. They requested we see a 'dedication' of the throne room ceremony with High King Fingolfin during the Mereth Aderthad episode, so plenty of opportunity to show off any details we want to in the throne room design.

My first thought on the statuary is not exactly modest or simple. I went straight to baroque statuary in cathedrals in Rome, so...kinda the opposite of that ;)

The hall of the apostles in St. John Lateran, for instance:

Obviously, the Elenwë statue will be more lifesize, and less looming and giant :p

But for 'statues coming out of walls' I am reminded of images like this:

Here, the angels aren't just bas relief, but (some of them) are statues attached to the wall, not freestanding on plinths of their own.

I think that baroque religious statuary has completely the wrong scale, but the right level of emotion and movement. I don't want a static statue, but one that conveys something poignant...and these artists certainly knew how to do that.

We also are not going to portray her as dead, so nothing like this one:

So, what exactly do we want her to look like? What should this statue convey?

And do people think it should be plain stone or painted?
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Well-Known Member
Cool! Personally i had always imagined Vinyamar as a compound, half city by the sea, half fortress in the cliffs...


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So, poses! For the Elenwë statue at Vinyamar. If it were commissioned by Bernini :p

Looking off into the distance and upwards:

Or reaching out?

Or seated?

A seated pose may work best for the attached to the wall/complement to Turgon on his throne imagery desired. Just, you know...with more clothes than this one.

I do like the downward head tilt like this angle:

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Staff member
It would be interesting to discuss features alluding to the palace of Knossos (Minoan culture, Crete), which has associations to the myth of Atlantis. Not that Vinyamar has such connotations, but given the links to Numenor (which is a version of Atlantis), maybe a touch of some art tradition could be seen to be started here already (if not seen in Gondolin):


So maybe we could use this kind of pillar, or the wall paintings?


Well-Known Member
Cool! Personally i had always imagined Vinyamar as a compound, half city by the sea, half fortress in the cliffs...
Hmmm, building into the cliffs holds a lot of potential. They talked a lot about how the throne should be 'attached' to the throne room, not something they could pick up and cart off to Gondolin (and same with the statue of Elenwë), so having both the throne and the statue carved from the actual rock of the cliff, with the throne room built around it would be pretty cool.

I know the dwarves carve their mansions from living rock all the time, but obviously Vinyamar isn't dwarf-built. So, I guess we'll want to emphasize the connection of the elves with their surroundings? Gondolin will be built into a rock, too, so we can show some repeats of this idea there, though not in the higher parts, obviously.

As for the view of the sea, I'm picturing stone pillars and arches, too, like that view from Mallorca. So, the rest of the throne room/palace can be obviously constructed from quarried stone, with just the back wall of the throne room a 'living stone' situation where it's rock-hewn rather than built from blocks.