Flammifer
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of discussion at the beginning of ‘The Ring goes South’, indicating that the main reason for the delay was to wait for reports from scouts, sent out to determine what happened to the Black Riders. Is there any real logic to this reason for delay? Gandalf says, “We can’t start until we have found out about the Riders.” “Elrond is sending Elves, and they will get in touch with the Rangers, and maybe with Thranduil’s folk in Mirkwood. And Aragorn has gone with Elrond’s sons.” (Why might they be scouting all the way to Thranduil’s folk?)
I can see a delay of a week or two to try to find out if the Riders were still lurking close enough to Rivendell to shadow the Ring-bearer when he left, but two months? What advantage is there in giving the Riders plenty of time to make it all the way back to Mordor to report to Sauron (and probably enough time after that report to set up spies near Rivendell)? I know that Gandalf says, “I think we may now hope that the Ring-wraiths were scattered, and have been obliged to return as best they could to their Master in Mordor, empty and shapeless. If that is so, it will be some time before they can begin the hunt again. Of course the Enemy has other servants, but they will have to journey all the way to the borders of Rivendell before they can pick up our trail.”
Gandalf seems to be assuming that the Ring-wraiths have no way of sending more rapid messages back to Mordor. What about the possibility that they travel to Isengard (which should take less than a month) and communicate with Sauron through the Palantir? They could be back on the borders of Rivendell themselves before the company sets off? (Not that Gandalf and Elrond knew of the Palantir connection between Orthanc and Barad-Dur, though they might have suspected, but the Nazgul presumably did.) Or they could send messages by crebain, or other means? Of course, as it turns out, Gandalf’s suppositions seem to be right, and Sauron’s ‘other servants’ don’t seem to pick up the trail of the Company until they reach Hollin. It seems a risky assumption, and safer to leave Rivendell after say two weeks, rather than two months? An earlier departure might have found better weather in Redhorn Pass or avoided Wargs in Hollin?
What on Middle-earth is the purpose of scouting for two months?
Or, is the ‘scouting’ partially an excuse, and Gandalf and Elrond have other reasons for delay which they would rather not reveal?
After all, the extensive ‘scouting’ proved futile. All that was learned of the Black Riders was learned in the first few days, when the bodies of three of the Black horses were found at the ford, and five more and one black cloak on the rapids below the ford.
Could it be that the delay was mainly caused by uncertainty on the part of Gandalf and Elrond as to the real extent of Frodo’s healing from the Morgul knife? That might have been a reason for delay which they were unwilling to reveal? That, I think, is the most probable reason.
Or, did they need to wait until the sons of Elrond got not just to Lothlorien, but back, for some reason? But, I cannot think of a good reason?
Of course, another possibility is that it was JRRT who initiated the delay, due to thinking it very important that the Company should leave Rivendell on Christmas Day? (Though it is not revealed that it was Christmas Day until Appendix B.)
The Hobbits seem fine with the delay, but I imagine Boromir was tremendously frustrated? I doubt he was a relaxing house guest in Rivendell during those two months?
What do you think might have been some of the conversations between Boromir and Elrond, or Boromir and Aragorn (Aragorn was out scouting with the sons of Elrond. Did Boromir go with them or was he irritable and frustrated in Rivendell)?
(By the way, “The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, were the last to return; they had made a great journey, passing down the Silverlode in a strange country, but of their errand they would not speak to any save to Elrond.” No mention of Aragorn? What happened to him? Did he return earlier? (“Others had gone west, and with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood.” So, did Aragorn go with the sons of Elrond, as Gandalf said, or, did he go west?) One assumes the great journey of Elrond’s sons was to Lothlorien? Why? What was so secret?)
Why do you think the Ring lingered in Rivendell for two months?
Something to ponder as we go through the chapter, ‘The Ring goes South’?
I can see a delay of a week or two to try to find out if the Riders were still lurking close enough to Rivendell to shadow the Ring-bearer when he left, but two months? What advantage is there in giving the Riders plenty of time to make it all the way back to Mordor to report to Sauron (and probably enough time after that report to set up spies near Rivendell)? I know that Gandalf says, “I think we may now hope that the Ring-wraiths were scattered, and have been obliged to return as best they could to their Master in Mordor, empty and shapeless. If that is so, it will be some time before they can begin the hunt again. Of course the Enemy has other servants, but they will have to journey all the way to the borders of Rivendell before they can pick up our trail.”
Gandalf seems to be assuming that the Ring-wraiths have no way of sending more rapid messages back to Mordor. What about the possibility that they travel to Isengard (which should take less than a month) and communicate with Sauron through the Palantir? They could be back on the borders of Rivendell themselves before the company sets off? (Not that Gandalf and Elrond knew of the Palantir connection between Orthanc and Barad-Dur, though they might have suspected, but the Nazgul presumably did.) Or they could send messages by crebain, or other means? Of course, as it turns out, Gandalf’s suppositions seem to be right, and Sauron’s ‘other servants’ don’t seem to pick up the trail of the Company until they reach Hollin. It seems a risky assumption, and safer to leave Rivendell after say two weeks, rather than two months? An earlier departure might have found better weather in Redhorn Pass or avoided Wargs in Hollin?
What on Middle-earth is the purpose of scouting for two months?
Or, is the ‘scouting’ partially an excuse, and Gandalf and Elrond have other reasons for delay which they would rather not reveal?
After all, the extensive ‘scouting’ proved futile. All that was learned of the Black Riders was learned in the first few days, when the bodies of three of the Black horses were found at the ford, and five more and one black cloak on the rapids below the ford.
Could it be that the delay was mainly caused by uncertainty on the part of Gandalf and Elrond as to the real extent of Frodo’s healing from the Morgul knife? That might have been a reason for delay which they were unwilling to reveal? That, I think, is the most probable reason.
Or, did they need to wait until the sons of Elrond got not just to Lothlorien, but back, for some reason? But, I cannot think of a good reason?
Of course, another possibility is that it was JRRT who initiated the delay, due to thinking it very important that the Company should leave Rivendell on Christmas Day? (Though it is not revealed that it was Christmas Day until Appendix B.)
The Hobbits seem fine with the delay, but I imagine Boromir was tremendously frustrated? I doubt he was a relaxing house guest in Rivendell during those two months?
What do you think might have been some of the conversations between Boromir and Elrond, or Boromir and Aragorn (Aragorn was out scouting with the sons of Elrond. Did Boromir go with them or was he irritable and frustrated in Rivendell)?
(By the way, “The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, were the last to return; they had made a great journey, passing down the Silverlode in a strange country, but of their errand they would not speak to any save to Elrond.” No mention of Aragorn? What happened to him? Did he return earlier? (“Others had gone west, and with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood.” So, did Aragorn go with the sons of Elrond, as Gandalf said, or, did he go west?) One assumes the great journey of Elrond’s sons was to Lothlorien? Why? What was so secret?)
Why do you think the Ring lingered in Rivendell for two months?
Something to ponder as we go through the chapter, ‘The Ring goes South’?