Casting Draft for The Fall of Gondolin

[Ange1e4e5]

So I decided to list my opinions on who I'd like to be in a standalone film/TV movie for The Fall of Gondolin.

Alexander Ludwig as Tuor.

Lily James as Idril. Her performance as Cinderella really sold me on this one.

Freddie Highmore as Maeglin. I think he should look younger and leaner than Tuor and Freddie can certainly play creepy, as can Maeglin.

David Tennant as Eol. His performance as Kilgrave in Jessica Jones really sold me on this one too, both charming and sometimes domineering.

More to come.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Anyone is free to deliver their thoughts and bring up their own suggestions.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Anyone?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Charlotte Riley as Aredhel. The reasons are in the original thread I posted for Aredhel a few months back.

Age: 35
Height: 5'4"
Known for: Nance in Edge of Tomorrow, Catherine Earnshaw-Linton from Wuthering Heights

 

[Haerangil]

Which roles would you like to cast at all?

do you have a complete cast-list? I mean, like all the Nobles and Captains of Gondolin?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Not a complete cast list, mostly main characters:

Tuor
Idril
Maeglin
Turgon
Aredhel
Eol
Voronwe
Glorfindel
Ecthelion

 

[Haerangil]

I mean, simply throwing in some pictures of actors becomes a bit dull after some time... what would be more interesting would be to take a closer look at the characters to get a better view of them and then brainstorm for some possible actors and other ideas.

 

[Xagzan]

Ok, I might get roasted here, but I've been mulling an idea regarding this for a while. At first it started off as kind of a joke, but now I actually feel more strongly about it.

Don't know if this is the right thread for it, I think we should consider genderbending Glorfindel.

I noticed a thread a few topics down about elf casting and race. And I think we face the same question regarding a lack of female characters. It's not quite at Hobbit levels, but still. I think a genderbend or two couldn't hurt.

For Glorfindel, it's also funny--and that's why I said it was a bit tongue in cheek when I first thought of it--cause Arwen already took Glorfindel's role in the LotR films. So this would be like his part going to a female character again

Plus, it would give a female elf some really strong action scenes, which are kind of sparse throughout the rest of the material, let's face it. Especially against balrogs.

I just wanted to float that out there.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Ok, I might get roasted here, but I've been mulling an idea regarding this for a while. At first it started off as kind of a joke, but now I actually feel more strongly about it.

Don't know if this is the right thread for it, I think we should consider genderbending Glorfindel.

I noticed a thread a few topics down about elf casting and race. And I think we face the same question regarding a lack of female characters. It's not quite at Hobbit levels, but still. I think a genderbend or two couldn't hurt.

For Glorfindel, it's also funny--and that's why I said it was a bit tongue in cheek when I first thought of it--cause Arwen already took Glorfindel's role in the LotR films. So this would be like his part going to a female character again

Plus, it would give a female elf some really strong action scenes, which are kind of sparse throughout the rest of the material, let's face it. Especially against balrogs.

I just wanted to float that out there.

I can understand this, but I do think that we are better off showing strength in the female characters we have and the ones that we have to create to fill in the blank spaces rather than try to shoehorn a female elf into Glorfindel's body.

 

[Xagzan]

Outside of Haleth though, as far as existing female characters, we don't have much to go by for real battle sequences. Even Luthien, who has more agency than most of the others, doesn't exactly get to partake in action scenes.

(And for better or worse, battles are an important part of these stories. There are quite a few battles of Beleriand driving the plot, after all. Not to mention all the minor side skirmishes)

Moreover, while I liked Tauriel, creating brand new characters wouldn't be my first choice. Because where could we really put them beyond the margins, those blank spaces? That's what happened to Tauriel, and though she got decent screen time it was one of the main criticisms of the trilogy, that there was this whole side story that barely connected with the main plot, if at all. Obviously the Silmarillion is already much more sprawling than that, but I just don't think the margins alone are good enough.

In general, my personal preference would be to stick to what Tolkien wrote as much as possible. It might sound ironic considering my idea, but I think it's actually less of a change to play around with an existing character than to start making new ones from scratch. And Glorfindel isn't in the margins. He may not be a major character, but he's integral to the flight of Gondolin's refugees, which is a huge part of the story that leads to Earendil. Plus he gets to fight a balrog. Rather than try to create something equal to that (in a work that already has loads and loads of characters), why not use what already exists?

At least in this case, I don't believe it distracts from anything, and it would give a female character--one who already half exists--a chance to participate in the more traditional action all the other male elves take for granted.

On top of all that, this would give a touch of variety to what's otherwise the boys club of Gondolin's leaders. The Hobbit barely got away with that with the dwarves. Though it hasn't been that long since then, I'd say things have changed even more.

Sorry for the long post. I've given this a lot of thought haha.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Here's my thing with this:

Part of my identity is that I am male. If I were female, I would be a different person. My identity would change.

I have addressed this subject before both in our discussions about Tulkas-Nessa and Dwarves.

I understand the desire here, and it is a good one. The thing I would point out is that Tolkien does not do this. Yet, his heroines are not inferior to his heroes in any way.

Eowyn does not retreat into femininity, she realizes that equality and sameness are not the same thing. To say that a woman must be the same as a man to be of equal value diminishes at once both femininity and masculinity.

Luthien clearly possesses greater power than Beren. He stands in wonder of her in the same way I do of my own wife. She is even superior to me in my most marketable skill. The fact that she would rely on me in a physical confrontation is wholly irrelevant to her value as a human, just as Beren saving Luthien from physical kidnapping by Celegorm does not diminish her.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

So does anyone actually have suggestions?

Ok, I might get roasted here, but I've been mulling an idea regarding this for a while. At first it started off as kind of a joke, but now I actually feel more strongly about it.

Don't know if this is the right thread for it, I think we should consider genderbending Glorfindel.

I noticed a thread a few topics down about elf casting and race. And I think we face the same question regarding a lack of female characters. It's not quite at Hobbit levels, but still. I think a genderbend or two couldn't hurt.

For Glorfindel, it's also funny--and that's why I said it was a bit tongue in cheek when I first thought of it--cause Arwen already took Glorfindel's role in the LotR films. So this would be like his part going to a female character again

Plus, it would give a female elf some really strong action scenes, which are kind of sparse throughout the rest of the material, let's face it. Especially against balrogs.

I just wanted to float that out there.

That's different, that was excising Glorfindel's character altogether.

So does anyone have ideas for this thread?

 

[Haerangil]

If we want some female fighting characters we might flesh out scenes for galadriel and hunleth...

The only amazon character we really have is haleth ( or perhaps ulbandi/ fluithuin if we want to use an evil orc/ maia/ ogre/ boldog character).

Hunleth might be another haladin warrioress , like haleth and her female bodyguard) and galadriel did actually part take in the battle action of the kinslaying at alqualonde on the falmari side...

We don' t have to invent more just to satisfy modern audiences likong for female action heroes. I ' m quite happy with haleth, her girlfriends, and galadriel- we don' t need more i think.

 

[Haerangil]

Well, let#s take this into a different direction: What characters actually DO we have in the Fall of Gondolin?

Main Characters: This is easy, we basically have

-Earendil
-Idril
-Maeglin
-Tuor
-Turgon

Secondary Characters, again this is easy, these do appear in the story and do play some important part:

-Annael, Tuor's elvish adoptive father, should appear in early Hithlum/Mithrim
-Gothmog, one of the War-Leaders at the fall of Gondolin
-Morgoth/Sauron , tortures and corrupts Maeglin (and some others?) - do we use Morgoth or Sauron here, or both?
-Ulmo , gives Tuor orders to go to Gondolin
-Voronwe , Tuors buddy

Now comes the more tricky part, which characters we MIGHT want to use or emphasize on as Support...

Support Characters, I do propose:

-Ecthelion - should appear at Turgon's court as an important official
-Glorfindel - should also play a major role at Turgon#s court
-Meleth - she#s Earendil#s Nurse and probably a friend of Idril#s
-Lorgan - drives Tuor and the Sindar out of Hithlum, should make an appearance in the early stage of the movie
-Rian - Tuors mother, might appear in an early scene, when Tuor is found and brought up by Annaels Elves
-Salgant/Talagand - is mentioned as a co-conspirator of Maeglins , a coward but also as a friendly uncle-like figure to Earendil. This character could actually become quite interesting!
-Thorondor , King of Eagles. Should play a more or less prominent part in the story.

Now optional characters, characters we may want to appear or play some part, but a small part only. They don#t even necessary need to have lines, they might just be outstanding extras (Figwits):

Turgons Paladins:
-Duilin - head of the house of the swallow
-Egalmoth - head of the house of the heavenly arch
-Elemmakil - captain of the guard of gondolin
-Galdor - head of the house of the tree
-Penlodh - hwad of two houses of Gondolin
-Rôg - head of the house of the hammer of wrath

I guess Elemmakil has a little dialogue, i don#t know if the others would have, but they definitely should appear as members of Turgon#s court and council. Especially Rog is interesting... his name is orcish, i always imagined him a rugged veteran and former prisoner of Angband who is known by the orcish nickname he got there... but that#s just my personal headcanon.

other Gondolindrim:

-Aranwe , he#s Voronwe#s dad ands possibly a noble of Gondolin. We may show the short reunion of father and son - or we consider Aranwe dead at the point. However Aranwe could be interesting, his -we name suggests he might be a very ancient elf, possibly one of the first or secondborn of Cuivienen, his aran- name suggests he is a very close kinsman of the noldo-Rayal line. So we could flesh him out if we wish to...
-Celebrimbor, peooply don't think about this too much but actually a young Celebrimbor at this point may have lived at Gondolin at the time as he was a pupil of Gondolin#äs Master-smith Enerdhil, so he might be present as a young member of Turgon#s court.
-Enerdhil , Gondolin#s genius-Smith. doesn#t need a dialogue, but might be shown as a working collreague/teacher to Tuor and maybe Earendil?
-Hendor , a House-Carl of Idril#s who assists at the escape from Gondolin. This character actually might be intreresting, we could flesh him out a bit and give him some lines...
-Legolas - a young scout. Do we make this Legolas the same as LotR Legolas? I don't think we have to do this, he just could be a namesake, as this Legolas seeems to be a Noldo and we have never heard that members of Thranduils Family lived at gondolin at the time.
-Littleheart - he#s Voronwe#s son, so actually a young Littleheart MIGHT appear in the movie. Maybe Voronwe met his wife at Gondolin, just as Tuor did and Ilfrin and young Earendil were playing comrades?
-Pengolodh, the famous Loremaster of Gondolin. He should appear as a prominent extra at Turgonäs court, we might give him some dialogue if we want to

Bad guys:

-Balcmeg
-Lug
-Othrod
-Orcobal

the four Orc-Chiefs slain or mutilated at Gondolin. I guess we use them in the same way PJ used his Boss-Orcs in his movies..

-"The Beast of Gondolin" - a terrible dragon, possibly spawn of Glaurung
-The Other Balrog - at least one other Balrog dies at Gondolin

We should decide if we want to give the bad guys some greater dialogue or not, if yes here we have quite a good ensemble of lesser support characters for a few lines.

others:
-Arminas & Gelmir - two elven ambassadors Tuor and Voronwe meet on their travel... if we wish to use the scene!
-Túrin - Tuora kinsman whom he sees for a second from afar - if we want to use this scene!
-Treebeard - people forget about this but Treebeart and Wandlimb live in Nan Tathren at the time, so if we do show the part of the story in which the gondolin refugees arrive at Nan Tathren there#s quite some chance they meet the ents!

 

[Haerangil]

I'm a fan of Salgant by the way, because he#s the only ever obese Elf!

and i want to suggest Kevin James or Jason Alexander for the Role!

http://www.moviepilot.de/people/kevin-james
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004517/

 

[Haerangil]

I also wish to add that i #d like to challenge the farspread idea of Maeglin as a messed up, pale emo-kid...

he's a great smith who forged magical weapons and gates for Gondolin (there#s quite a chance that it was him who made Orcrist, Glamdring and Sting) and a Miner and a fighter (he fought valiantly in the Nírnaeth Arnoediad). I'd like to see a different kind of Maeglin, a small, wiry, dark-skinned, adventurous explorer-type (think of it, he's caught by Morgoth's hunters while he's disregarding Turgon's orders and secretly exploring new metal and mineral deposits at Anghabar)

Actually i think Sendhil Ramamurthy should play the role...

 

[Marielle]

I also wish to add that i #d like to challenge the farspread idea of Maeglin as a messed up, pale emo-kid...

he's a great smith who forged magical weapons and gates for Gondolin (there#s quite a chance that it was him who made Orcrist, Glamdring and Sting) and a Miner and a fighter (he fought valiantly in the Nírnaeth Arnoediad). I'd like to see a different kind of Maeglin, a small, wiry, dark-skinned, adventurous explorer-type (think of it, he's caught by Morgoth's hunters while he's disregarding Turgon's orders and secretly exploring new metal and mineral deposits at Anghabar)

THANK YOU!

If anything, I want to depict Maeglin as the exact opposite of pale&emo... I understand the impulse to imagine him that, but he's not a woe-is-me whiney character: he realizes he can't fairly/rightly get what he wants, so he breaks the rules. He's got emotional trauma and a whole bunch of issues, but his response to them is not a modern middle-class tween's. Frankly, he's too nefarious to be emo.

I don't have a firm actor choice for Maeglin yet (though Ramamurthy is an interesting idea!), but I want him to be very visually appealing, and charming. I want it to make sense that everyone but Idril is fooled -- maybe even Tuor at first, until he notices how uncomfortable she is around Maeglin.

 

[Xagzan]

Well, that's my argument at any rate.

If we want some female fighting characters we might flesh out scenes for galadriel and hunleth...

The only amazon character we really have is haleth ( or perhaps ulbandi/ fluithuin if we want to use an evil orc/ maia/ ogre/ boldog character).

Hunleth might be another haladin warrioress , like haleth and her female bodyguard) and galadriel did actually part take in the battle action of the kinslaying at alqualonde on the falmari side...

We don' t have to invent more just to satisfy modern audiences likong for female action heroes. I ' m quite happy with haleth, her girlfriends, and galadriel- we don' t need more i think.

Unfortunately for Haleth, she only has the one brief mention in the story, and not during one of the major tales either. Anything we come up with beyond that would be purely original.

Also I think Legolas wasn't born until the 2nd or even 3rd age, no?

 

[Haerangil]

We don' t know when legolas was born, though it seems likely that he was born after the war of the last alliance- due to elvish customs of mot siring children in times of war.

 

[Xagzan]

After watching the live action Cinderella movie, I'm also sold on Lily James being an elf. Whether it''s Idril, or even Elwing. She has a real light, airy quality that would work well, at least from what I saw in the movie.