Complete Cast List for Season Two

MithLuin

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I hope to keep track of the characters who will be appearing throughout the season, and in each individual episode. That should help give people a picture of how major of a role a character has, and help us to avoid leaving anyone out (we forgot about Arien in season one, for instance, and the sons of Elrond in the Frame).

All of the characters from Season 1 are still characters in Season 2, but they've already been cast, so I won't bring them up here. We should probably not forget about them in other forums, but....not needed here.

With elves having (near) eternal youth and not many signs of age, differentiating between generations is going to be...interesting.

Characters marked with a '?' may not be appearing in this season...we will have to see how that unfolds.

Frame: Arwen, Celeborn, Galadriel - these characters will reappear in later seasons, but both Celeborn and Galadriel could be born in the main story this Season, making young/old discussions necessary. There will be other elves of Lothlorien, and some of them may have dialogue. It is *possible* the characters of the frame will travel, though...unlikely that they go far or interact with 'outsiders'.

Main

EVIL characters:
Thuringwethil - female - possible bat shape, possibly still a bit more human-form
Drauglin - male - werewolf form is more wolf and no humanoid version. [voice]
Tevildo - male - cat-like (think black panther or saber-toothed tiger, not kitty cat) [voice]

The oldest generation of elves:
Morwë (Avari) - 1/2 of the 'Noldor' stayed with him at Cuivienen
Nurwen (Avari) - 1/3 of the 'Teleri' stayed with her at Cuivienen
Ingwë (Vanyar) + his wife - all of the Vanyar left Cuivienen
Finwë (Noldor)
Míriel (Noldor)
Mahtan (Noldor)
Elwë (Teleri-Sindar)
Olwë (Teleri-Falmari) + his wife
Círdan (Teleri-Falathrim)
Lenwë (Teleri-Nandor) + his wife

Next Generation:
Ingwion? (Vanyar) - the son of Ingwë will play a role in the War of Wrath 10 seasons from now. There is no need to introduce him in this season, and he can always be born later.
Indis (Vanyar) - daughter of Ingwë
Fëanor (Noldor) - son of Finwë and Míriel
Fingolfin (Noldor) - son of Finwë and Indis
Finarfin (Noldor) - son of Finwë and Indis
Findis and Irime - 2 daughters of Finwë and Indis (one stays in Valinor, one goes to Middle Earth with their brother Fingolfin)
Nerdanel (Noldor) - daughter of Mahtan, wife of Fëanor
Anairë (Noldor) - wife of Fingolfin
Eärwen (Teleri-Falmari) - daughter of Olwë, wife of Finarfin
Luthien? (Teleri-Sindar) - daughter of Thingol and Melian (born this season, but not cast until later, most likely)
Denethor? (Teleri-Nandor/Laiquendi) - Son of Lenwë, leaves the Nandor and leads the Green Elves next season


Third Generation (only in the Valinor story-line: so, all Noldor) [Let's HOLD on casting these until Season 3, even though, yes, they will appear towards the end of this season.]
Maedhros - eldest son of Fëanor
Maglor - son of Fëanor
Celegorm - son of Fëanor
Curufin - son of Fëanor
Caranthir - son of Fëanor
Amrod and Amras - twin sons of Fëanor
Fingon - eldest son of Fingolfin
Turgon - son of Fingolfin
Argon? - possible son of Fingolfin who will be killed in the first battle he is in?
Aredhel - daughter of Fingolfin
Finrod - eldest son of Finarfin
Angrod - son of Finarfin
Aegnor - son of Finarfin
Galadriel - daughter of Finarfin
Elenwë (Vanyar) - wife of Turgon

Even Younger: [HOLD]
Idril? (a child of 7-8 at the time of the Darkening, she is the daughter of Turgon (Noldor) and his wife Elenwë (Vanyar)) - we may not see her until Season 3
Celebrimbor? (Son of Curufin (Noldor) and his unnamed wife, who presumably did not go into Exile with the Noldor. Celebrimbor's age is unclear, but he is clearly the youngest Fëanorean - alternately, we could have him born in Middle Earth, with his mother dying prior to the tale of Beren and Luthien...but that takes away the chance of him ever meeting Fëanor.)
Orodreth? Whose kid is he and is he born yet? I vote for making him younger (and Angrod's son)


Miscellaneous Elves of undetermined age:

Beleg (Teleri-Sindar)
Mablung (Teleri-Sindar)
Saeros (Teleri-Laiquendi)-save for later
Eöl (Avari)
Rúmil (Noldor)
Amarië (Vanyar)
 
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Haakon

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Great idea!

Thoughts: Just counting the ones without a ? gives us the task of casting around 40 characters. I am not particularly fond of making casting issues affecting storytelling but maybe we'll have to consider it this time. For example: If we kill off Elmo before he's introduced- I mean we can make Galadhon fatherless because of the Hunter, we don't have to assign an actor for Elmo. And we should perhaps choose to have Celebrimbor being born in Middle-earth for the same reasons. And so on.
 

MithLuin

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If, as we go through, a character is so minor as to have no role in the story and no speaking part at all, then they are really just 'random background extra' and do not need to be cast. They maybe have to have a particular height or haircolor, but we needn't worry about them.

Fëanor will have to have 7 sons, and they will be onscreen for at least some scenes (the banishment), but to suggest they will be 'characters'.....eh, that is going a bit far. We might not need to really worry about casting them until next season, with the understanding that, yes, whoever we cast next season will actually appear onscreen a few times in this season in the background or whatever. The exceptions would be those who are relevant to the story and have a role this season. So, of the 3rd generation, I would suggest focusing on casting for (at most): Maedhros, Celegorm, Fingon, Aredhel, Galadriel, Finrod (eldest, daughters, and Huan's pal :p). That should be plenty to keep us going. The others can wait.

Other characters we will just have to....wait and see. Will Anairë (Fingolfin's wife) even be in this? It is suggested that she chose not to go with the Noldor into exile (and thus was parted from her husband and all their children) because of her friendship with Eärwen (Finarfin's wife). If we are showing that friendship developing this season (to lead up to the horror of the Kinslaying and at the service of the 'unrest of the Noldor' arc), then, yeah, we probably need to cast Anairë. If she is going to be 'random female Noldo extra' standing near her husband in a handful of group scenes then....meh, we don't need her. Either way, she will never be seen again after Season 3 Episode 2-3ish, so....either way, it's a minor role. She may be in a total of 2-3 scenes where she has an important one-on-one conversation with someone...or...not. UNLESS we have the surprise Valinor frame, where those 'left behind' in Valinor find out about the events in Middle Earth and discuss the 'news'. So, certainly, I will adjust this casting list as the conversations about the episode content happen.
 

Haakon

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I see a risk that screen time limitations will force us to focus on the characters who are dominant in the published Silmarillion, which might lead to mostly male stories and pushing the female elves into the background. We can manage some of that in season and episode outlines, but there will often be a necessity to include the men and no necessity to include the women. Let's be careful about that.
 

ouzaru

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Really killing it with the lists and the outlines and the thesis-length posts recently, Marie. (b'.')b
 

MithLuin

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Haakon, that is one reason I am leery of too much compression of stories; if we stick to the 'this happened, then this happened, then a battle and a few deaths....' we'll manage to get the basic story of the Silmarillion down, but we'll lose a lot of the nuance that makes the story worth telling.

I know that some people are reacting 'eeep, too many characters! let's cut the non-essential ones'....which, yes, fair, there are way too many to deal with well. But....the 'non-essential' characters will be all of the wives. We should pause before we decide that those are the voices and perspectives we definitely want to cut out of our telling of this story.

For all of the decision-making that has to happen, I do imagine some domestic scenes where our main characters talk over the situation with their wives.

The drama of Finwë's remarriage to Indis is mostly in Fëanor's resentment and disapproval. I am sure Nerdanel hears the brunt of that...and that their dialogue would continue throughout the second half of this season.

But since Fëanor's feud is with Fingolfin, we'll probably want to show his family at some point as well. And in that case, we will want Anairë, who is not named in the published Silmarillion.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

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I'm definitely in favor of expanding on stories during this period, as I was during Season 1. Otherwise, we're doing a pseudo-historical documentary.
 

MithLuin

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My preference is for choices that will make later decisions and events more gut-wrenching.

It is going to be pretty terrible to watch the Noldor slaughter the Teleri and steal their ships, even if the Teleri are just shocked nameless faces. It will be even *more* terrible if some of those Teleri are characters we know, and it will be brutal if some of them are close friends with the Noldor and we've *seen* that.

Like many fanfic writers, I go for maximum torture :p

For instance, in Season 1, I think it was wonderful to portray the seduction/fall of Mairon in such a gradual way, so that when he chooses to reveal the awakening of the elves to Melkor rather than the Valar....a knife right in the gut.

I would like more knives on display in Season 2, so we can stab our viewers in later seasons.

And...I should perhaps stop this metaphor now, as I am sounding mildly disturbing. [How this is different from Checkov's gun, I don't know, but I'm stopping now.]
 

ouzaru

Well-Known Member
Haakon, that is one reason I am leery of too much compression of stories; if we stick to the 'this happened, then this happened, then a battle and a few deaths....' we'll manage to get the basic story of the Silmarillion down, but we'll lose a lot of the nuance that makes the story worth telling.
Best recent example of this problem is the Warcraft movie.

There are characters there, but they have got nowhere near enough time to breathe, and it kind of sucks most of the air out of the movie.
 

MithLuin

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I have not seen that, but I can see how that would be an issue with the different groups to keep track of, and trying to find the balance between 'introduce a brand new audience to this world' and 'please those who have spent a lot of time interacting with this world already.'

There are some characters on this list who are just names to me. I had to look them up to figure out who they were. Obviously, I have no very strong ideas of who they are and what they will do (yet).

Others of these characters are quite real to me and have an obvious voice/stance/characterization. It will be much easier for me to focus on them.

There is a risk of forgetting all about the Valar, now that we have elves on screen, but we have to do a more nuanced handing off of the baton than that.

I do intend to alter this list as we go, so it includes the characters we *actually* will be using, not just people who are there.
 

MithLuin

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Tentative suggestion of who we will need in each episode (NEW characters only; I know the Valar are already cast).

Frame: Arwen, Galadriel (adult), Celeborn (adult)
  1. Awakening of the Elves - Cuivienen Ensemble (Morwë, Nurwë, Ingwë, Finwë, Míriel, Elwë, Olwë, Elmo?, Círdan, Lenwë, various wives)
  2. Invitation - (YT 1101-2) Mostly focused on Ingwë, Finwë and Elwë
  3. The Great Debate (YT 1104-1105) - Cuivienen Ensemble, Tom Bombadil cameo
  4. Choice of Destinies (YT 1115-1140) - Lenwë and his son Denethor, Elwë and Olwë, Beleg and Mablung?
  5. Latecomers - Círdan and Olwë, Finwë
  6. Elvenhome - ???
  7. Noontide of Valinor - Fëanor, Míriel, Finwë,Indis; Fingolfin and Finarfin (and 2 daughters) - babies; Nerdanel, Mahtan
  8. Trial -???
  9. In the Light of the Trees - Galadriel (young), Fëanor, Celegorm, various Noldor
  10. Kinstrife - Fëanor, Fingolfin and Finarfin; Maedhros,Fingon Finwë
  11. Valar-centric ???
  12. Harvest Feast of Reconciliation (YT 1492-1495) - Everyone in Valinor
  13. Darkening of Valinor - ???
 

Haakon

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Thinking about Morwë and Nurwë... These parts are small if you look at the season, they will appear in the first three episodes and then they're never seen again. But if we cast totally unknown actors as these guys, that's a spoiler, everyone will understand that they aren't important and interest in them will be low. That will take the dynamics and drama out of the great debate. So I suggest that we cast people who are fairly well known, but for one reason or other don't fit as other elves.
For exemple, I can see Jude Law as an elf, but I have a hard time seeing him as any of the prominent elves in these stories. But if we cast him as Nurwë, he'd give that role some weight and make the debate more interesting. Or he could be Elmo, and the Hunter could take him early on. That would also be an interesting choice.
 

MithLuin

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An interesting thought. And from a practical standpoint, it is more affordable to get a big name actor for a single episode (or in this case, three).

Of course, some of the actors we've nominated would never consider being in a TV show anyway, so...this is all fantasy casting, of course. I would expect an actual show to cast almost entirely 'nobody' actors that we've never seen/heard of before.
 

MithLuin

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An issue we *do* have to deal with is whether all of the elves will be more-or-less white (Western/Northern European).

The Hosts have shied away from differentiating elvish groups with racial characteristics, because they all start in one place (mixed together) and then start dividing up based on their decisions to stay or go - it would be a bit weird if the group of Asian elves just segregated itself out from the rest. And we don't want the Dark Elves to be dark skinned. So we are left with family resemblance and traits in the casting, but no clear direction of what characters to make stand out. We have been mostly suggesting white actors for all of the elvish roles so far - are there going to be any exceptions? And would it be weird to have nearly everyone be homogenous, and then just randomly have Mablung of the Heavy Hand in Doriath be a black guy?
 
When will the Awakening of the dwarves happen they were sent to sleep during Y.T so we will need them to be awoken. Like durin wakes up on Mt Gundabad and finds Khazad-Dum and Azaghal and Naugladur's fathers Uri and Dwalin need to build Belegost and Nogrod. Also the stiff beards, black locks, iron fists and Stonefoots fathers. Could I make a page about the dwarves and discussing about the fathers and locations?
 

Haakon

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We won't show the awakening of the dwarves. We will see them arrive in Beleriand in season three.
 

Haakon

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Well I guess I should say, that's the way the execs have talked about it so far. It might change of course. Perhaps you could make them change their minds. It's interesting stuff.
 

MithLuin

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We will not have dwarves in Season 2, but how we introduce the dwarves in Season 3 and what we show of their background is likely up for discussion. One issue is that the introduction of the dwarves is tied to the construction of Menegroth, so we can't do a leisurely build up (say, an entire dwarf-centric episode), but rather show the elves meeting the dwarves in Beleriand.

That doesn't mean we won't have an opportunity to visit their Halls later and get some of that background then.
 
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