Discussion: Another Conspiracy

amysrevenge

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
From the "Questions for Narnion" section

NotACat said:
As I was listening again to last week's discourse on the conversation between Ted Sandyman and Sam Gamgee, I was struck by the way Ted was so desperate to shut down all conversation about "queer things you do hear about" and it occurred to me that it won't be so very long in story terms until he's knocking down his old mill and building a new one, up to his furry ears in cahoots with Lotho.

As a consequence I was wondering when those cahoots got started: is Ted already engaged in those shady practices with Lotho which ended up with the latter owning so much that wasn't good for him, and worse for so many others? Do we know when Skarkey's plans originally started to roll?

Was Ted worried that the "queer things you do hear about" might include rumours that certain Hobbits might have been buying up an unreasonable number of properties with nefarious intent, or even that there might be "outlandish folks" involved?
Click to expand...

There's a bit of a window there for this to be possible - at first I was thinking of Gaffer and Sandyman, and thought "no, it's still waaaaay too soon", but with Sam and Ted it's not, really. What's the timeline here, is this June of 1419? Am I off by a bit?

Regardless - some time AFTER Bilbo's party, but BEFORE Frodo sets out, Saruman has started to feel his way into the Shire (hence the pipeweed at Isengard later).

In my preferred headcanon, at this time Lotho is already having dealings with outsiders, but Ted is only dealing with Lotho. But that's not supported by any text that I could point to.
 
The conversation appears to have taken place in April prior to Frodo's departure. Merry and Pippen arrive in Isengard at the beginning of the following March, less than a year later. Conceiveably, Saruman's dealing with the Shire could have started in June following word that the Nazgul were asking for news of the Shire (FOTR p333-335) and shortly after imprisoning Gandalf in Orthnac, but given the distances, the time frames involved and what else is happening during this period, I find it unlikely.
 
Shoot, I heard something somewhere else that narrowed this down a bit more. Was it maybe listening to the Mythgard "Unfinished Tales" class? I think that must be it. There's something in there that more precisely pinpoints Saruman's interests in the Shire, and it was earlier than we are thinking here. But I forget the detail.
 
In The Two Towers, Pippin says that year on the barrels of pipe weed was 1417, and says that was last years crop, no the year before. So taking this into account I would think Saruman's dealings with the Shire should have started that year, or even the year before that 1415. But who can tell.
 
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