Ecthelion

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
They're not the same person at all.
People pushing for Ecthelion to get captured and come back "Rambo" are trying to make him near-identical to Rog, instead of just using Rog himself -- something I don't understand. Rog (with name change) should be Rog, and Ecthelion shouldn't be a copy of Rog.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I don’t think that the idea to let Ecthelion be captured and escape necessarily has to do with Rog. In the session, I suggested Ecthelion as a candidate to be captured and escape and I had no thought in my mind touching on Rog.

When we started this project, I imagined an enormous epic tapestry of intertwined stories, us not letting any single stone of Tolkien’s works be unturned or any element be left unused. But in reality (even in the imagined reality of this project) that’s impossible of course, since the more elements you include, the more you are forced to invent, because the fragments need to be elaborated. And since I also want us to stay as close to the published and most established writings, that limits how much of the less central characters I think we can include. Rog is an example, at this point. If our story demands the introduction of another character, I will love to work on Rog’s story, though.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I’m a violinist myself.

But honestly, Rog and Ecthelion sound like the same person.

We could try Sebastian Stan for Ecthelion.
Age: 35
Height: 6’0”
Roles: Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier in MCU


Eh sorry I’m not that impressed by his singing...
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Here’s a singer. Euan Doidge. He doesn’t seem to have an IMDb page, regrettably.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
If our story demands the introduction of another character, I will love to work on Rog’s story, though.
If our story demands an Elf who goes to Angband and comes back as Rambo, and Maedhros isn't enough, I think we should just use Rog who already is exactly and precisely that, instead of rewriting another character into a copy of Rog. I consider rewriting a character to be departure from the published writings. You haven't really said why Rog, himself, is unuseable and has to be replaced. I don't see anything wrong with the character except his name.

Personally, I don't think the story requires more than Maedhros as an example anyway.

Edited to avoid more derail-like posts: If we have time to tell about Ecthelion getting captured and escaping, surely we have time to tell the exact same story, with Rog instead.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
If our story demands an Elf who goes to Angband and comes back as Rambo, and Maedhros isn't enough, we should just use Rog who already is exactly and precisely that, instead of rewriting another character to turn them into an exact copy of Rog. I consider total rewriting of a character to be far from the published writings. Nobody has yet suggested any reason why Rog, himself, is unuseable and has to be replaced/eliminated. There's nothing wrong with the character except his name.

Personally, I don't think the story requires more than Maedhros as an example anyway.
Do we need a major character getting captured and the bad guys learning about the Kinslaying from them? We could just have Sauron and Thuringwethil find out by snooping around in disguise amongst the Noldor... But we’re going off-track.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Here's the thing - there are only two lords of Gondolin who are 'important' characters - Glorfindel and Ecthelion. Both of these characters will need to be introduced to the audience in a meaningful way. So, what we are really looking for is a way to introduce Ecthelion.

We can tell Rog's story (with Rog renamed), and have a minor character in Gondolin who will die fighting outside the walls. That's fine.

But it doesn't solve the problem of how we introduce Glorfindel and Ecthelion properly. We do want Ecthelion to be an epic fighter. So, while the 'capture-torture-and-release' trope could make him a second coming of Eonwë, it's only one way to get there. Any other suggestions on how to introduce him? Those can probably go in the general discussion for Season 4.


For the purposes of casting, Ecthelion should be a strong fighter (he's going to take out Gothmog, after all), and he should probably be dark-haired to contrast with Glorfindel's blond. For elves, we tend to like tall actors (so, 6'), and between the ages of 25-40. Good singing voice? (I only put a question mark on that because if we don't have a scene planned where he sings, we don't really need that. So, as Season 4 unfolds, we'll know more.)
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Here's the thing - there are only two lords of Gondolin who are 'important' characters - Glorfindel and Ecthelion. Both of these characters will need to be introduced to the audience in a meaningful way. So, what we are really looking for is a way to introduce Ecthelion.

We can tell Rog's story (with Rog renamed), and have a minor character in Gondolin who will die fighting outside the walls. That's fine.

But it doesn't solve the problem of how we introduce Glorfindel and Ecthelion properly. We do want Ecthelion to be an epic fighter. So, while the 'capture-torture-and-release' trope could make him a second coming of Eonwë, it's only one way to get there. Any other suggestions on how to introduce him? Those can probably go in the general discussion for Season 4.


For the purposes of casting, Ecthelion should be a strong fighter (he's going to take out Gothmog, after all), and he should probably be dark-haired to contrast with Glorfindel's blond. For elves, we tend to like tall actors (so, 6'), and between the ages of 25-40. Good singing voice? (I only put a question mark on that because if we don't have a scene planned where he sings, we don't really need that. So, as Season 4 unfolds, we'll know more.)
Looks like a good criteria. Do you have anyone in mind?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
As faelivrin detailed the later version of gondolin is that of a fingolfinian-sinda enclave...

In some way that is said because the lords of gondolin are some of the most interesting characters. In a more mixed refugee haven, the very different lords could have come from a variety of backgrounds and be used to flesh out the noldor as a whole... but so we have Ecthelion and Glorfindel, who are most likely very loyal Fingolfinians from the beginning... which makes them a bit boring in my eyes, and a number of great names, supposedly equally fingolfinian loyalists.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
The execs want Ecthelion to be a 'dark, rugged, physically powerful' person. They forgot that he also has to have a beautiful singing voice, but that's also a must.
We obviously have to find ways to make it easy to separate Ecthelion from Rhogrin (who is swarthy and physically large). The two descriptions/casting criteria are a bit too similar imho. So how do we do that? We have to find some traits that Ecthelion has and Rhogrin hasn't, and vice versa.
Ecthelion has a great singing voice. Rhogrin should not be a singer. He should be more of a quiet person, as a contrast.
Rhogrin is supposed to have a dark complexion. We should find an actor who has Latin, Easter Mediterranean or Middle-eastern origin. Ecthelion, on the other hand, should be super pale (but dark haired). What else? Perhaps Ecthelion is an allround athletic type, while Rhogrin is rougher, heavier.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
The execs want Ecthelion to be a 'dark, rugged, physically powerful' person. They forgot that he also has to have a beautiful singing voice, but that's also a must.
We obviously have to find ways to make it easy to separate Ecthelion from Rhogrin (who is swarthy and physically large). The two descriptions/casting criteria are a bit too similar imho. So how do we do that? We have to find some traits that Ecthelion has and Rhogrin hasn't, and vice versa.
Ecthelion has a great singing voice. Rhogrin should not be a singer. He should be more of a quiet person, as a contrast.
Rhogrin is supposed to have a dark complexion. We should find an actor who has Latin, Easter Mediterranean or Middle-eastern origin. Ecthelion, on the other hand, should be super pale (but dark haired). What else? Perhaps Ecthelion is an allround athletic type, while Rhogrin is rougher, heavier.
I’m not sure we discussed other abilities like singing, did we?
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I’m not sure we discussed other abilities like singing, did we?
If you didn’t, that was a mistake. I forgot to mention it in my summary, and nobody else thought about it. It was one of the things I really wanted to include in the summary though so I’m kind of disappointed in myself. Anyway, the actor has to be a singer.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
The singing is something we’ve neglected a couple of times before with the result that people who can’t sing were cast in roles that demand singing (Finrod, most notably). I think it’s a real shame, and I hope we can avoid it from now on.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
If we are making 'casting sheets' for the characters this season, we can absolutely include that ability on his.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I would have liked Ecthelion to be played by a more dark- skinned actor... sadly we now have our strictly-european-elves ethnicity-pattern...

Still i 'd like to state that not all europeans have a very light skintone...
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
If we are making 'casting sheets' for the characters this season, we can absolutely include that ability on his.
I think we should be doing just that. In fact, I was under the impression that this is what we were more or less trying to do, if not in a very formal way. At least, we’ve discussed improving the casting process to make sure things like this weren’t forgotten. I believe we reached a consensus about it, and I have been trying to remind everyone of it. So, even if we’re not writing ‘casting sheets’ exactly, we’re trying to make sure that criteria such as specific traits and skills are known. In general terms, I hope I did mention it before the session, and I certainly did mention it before the session when we talked about the frame casting.
Sorry for my little rant, I was reacting to your ‘if’. I guess we’re on the same page, I just want to make things clear.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Ah...the 'if' was in connection to my not volunteering to make casting lists myself. I certainly hope casting lists get made, but since I wasn't going to necessarily do it myself...I left it at 'if'. But yes, I do appreciate your keeping track of all of this.
 
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