Elf-fathers and elf-mothers

Haakon

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In the HOME volume 'The War of the Jewels' there is a version of the awakening of the first elves which is very interesting but also problematic. Tolkien didn't finish it and it's not included in PubSil.
The story is this: the first elves woke in pairs, man and woman: Imin ("First") and Iminyë, Tata ("Second") and Tatië, and Enel ("Third") and Enelyë. They were called the unbegotten, since they awoke fully grown, without parents. the three elf-fathers chose groups of followers: Imin chose 14, Tata 56, and Enel 74. The "First" group were later named Vanyar, the second Noldor and the third Teleri.

Apparently, three ambassadors were later chosen by Oromë to come to Aman, and these three became the leaders of the eldar - Ingwë, Finwë and Elwë. They chose wives, and as the case of Elwë makes plain, these ambassadors were not identical to the unbegotten, who didn't choose their wives (Elwë wouldn't have been able to choose Melian if he had been one of the first generation, the unbegotten). So, we can be fairly certain that the ambassadors had parents and weren't firstborn. Finwë later marries Ingwë's sister - another clue that they were of a later generation.
What happened to the unbegotten? Are they just a tale? I don't think so - even if Tolkien treats it like an elvish children's tale, it gives an account of the origins of the elves that is typical of Tolkien, and the clearest account he gives us. It's unfinished, though. So it leaves us with questions. Why weren't the elf-fathers and elf-mothers the leaders of the people? Did they die? In that case, when? Perhaps Melkor killed them. Or did they choose to stay at Cuiviénen, and were killed in some cataclysm - when Beleriamd was destroyed perhaps?
It seems like something we don't have to show clearly in the series but should have a clear idea about.
 
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My personal theory is that Imin, Tata, and Enel is that they stayed at Cuiviénen.

And that them and their wives might be the parents of the three ambassadors. Since Elwë and Olwë were brothers, they at least were not from the unbegotten.

For me, at least, it would make sense that the offspring of the leaders in Cuiviénen would be the one to lead their people to Valinor.

As far as I know, there is no info to confirm or deny my theory, so it is just an opinion. If anyone knows otherwise, please do correct me.
 
My personal theory is that Imin, Tata, and Enel is that they stayed at Cuiviénen.

And that them and their wives might be the parents of the three ambassadors. Since Elwë and Olwë were brothers, they at least were not from the unbegotten.

For me, at least, it would make sense that the offspring of the leaders in Cuiviénen would be the one to lead their people to Valinor.

As far as I know, there is no info to confirm or deny my theory, so it is just an opinion. If anyone knows otherwise, please do correct me.
Yes that's what I'm thinking as well. :)
 
I also like the Idea that the first six Elves die or get abducted or simply vanish...

so the Cuivienen Elves are practically unorganized and leaderless until the Valar find them and Ingwe,Olwe, Elwe, Lenwe become great chieftains because of the valor they showed by not fleeing from Orome and his entourage and them being taken to Valinor and practically being enlightened. The other leaders, Morwe, Nurwe, Tuvo could emerge in opposition to them.

I always thought of Ingwe as Imins son and the brothers Elwe, Olwe, Elmo as sons of Enel and Enelye, and Nowe/Cirdan their cousin. I also would like Nurwe and Morwe, the Avar leaders as second generation Elkes, maybe brothers or cousins of Elwe and Finwe, or also sons of Enel and Tata.I like the character of Tuvo... i'd like him to be a first genaration Elf too.
 
I also like the Idea that the first six Elves die or get abducted or simply vanish...

so the Cuivienen Elves are practically unorganized and leaderless until the Valar find them and Ingwe,Olwe, Elwe, Lenwe become great chieftains because of the valor they showed by not fleeing from Orome and his entourage and them being taken to Valinor and practically being enlightened. The other leaders, Morwe, Nurwe, Tuvo could emerge in opposition to them.

I always thought of Ingwe as Imins son and the brothers Elwe, Olwe, Elmo as sons of Enel and Enelye, and Nowe/Cirdan their cousin. I also would like Nurwe and Morwe, the Avar leaders as second generation Elkes, maybe brothers or cousins of Elwe and Finwe, or also sons of Enel and Tata.I like the character of Tuvo... i'd like him to be a first genaration Elf too.
These things have already been discussed and decisions have been made, I'm afraid. I suggest you check out the script section and the episode discussion boards.
 
Well, I just don't want you to get your hopes up about something that's been worked through. Did you check out the FAQ?
 
yes. And I don't have any hope that things I think different of will be changed again... that's the way it is always with adaptions: you can't satisfy everybody. I'm fine with that. Yet I'm looking forward to read the scripts...
 
Corey Olsen is quite set on the idea of Ingwë being the First Elf (an idea Tolkien briefly considered in the Etymologies in HoME V).

We did use the names Tatië, Morwë and Nurwen for characters at Cuivienen. We did not work in Tuvo - what are your thoughts on who Tuvo should be?
 
yes i've noticed that decision in the podcast.so in this adaption ingwe is identical with imin i guess.that's okay for me, though i had more liked the idea that all -we elves are same generation- and thats difficult if we consider elwe and olwe brothers in the first sense.

anyway i like that morwe and nurwe make an appearance... even if i dislike the idea that nurwe is turned into a female and love interest for elwe.

i would have liked a tuvo -like character to appear as the first elf-child awakened by morgoth and taken by him to utumno to "teach" him.

maybe there could be room for a tuvo-like character in a later season when it comes to the awakening of men. i'd like to see elements from both, the lost. tales nuin-story and andreds tale about the first temple to be used at some point for clearifying the origin of men. a tuvo-like character could be the ruler of the avari who find and teach the first men... and i like the idea of him arguing against the men and being a darker character... perhaps because he had once been morgoths prisoner.
 
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