The zodiac is high in the south *at midnight* in the winter.
Of course, the zodiac is at its lowest at noon in midwinter (the sun never gets high in the sky). It lifts up from noon to midnight, then falls back low in the sky as midnight progresses towards noon.
What time of day did Frodo see this red star? In early evening or shortly before dawn a planet can, indeed, be low in the south at midwinter.
Think about it this way: a planet can be very low -- just about to set shortly after the sun -- in the south-west; if it's a few hours from setting, it will be still pretty low, and pretty much directly south.
And where is frodo? Longitude of Oxford, sure, but latitude? Central poland?
Hi Haerangil,
Why do you think that Frodo's latitude might be 'Central Poland'? I agree that Frodo's latitude might well be that of Central Poland. But that is because the latitude of Central Poland is pretty much exactly the same as the latitude of Oxford, England.
I guess that Hobbiton is probably located about where Oxford is today. When Frodo sees red Borgil, he is not very far from Hobbiton. Woodhall is about 40 miles from Hobbiton. About 30 miles east, and 13 miles south.
Rivendell would be about 1300 miles east of the former Beleriandic coast which is maybe 15/16°. So rivendells longitude could be northwestern germany maybe..
Hmm... internet says if beleriand westcoast was about 51° -15°... 1300 miles east would be 51°,15° Višňová u Frýdlantu, northernmost Tchechia, close to polands southwestern border.
It could be... the distance between westcoast beleriand and Imladris is actually rather about 2800 miles according to some maps... if i am right and westcoast beleriand is about -17° ...
I still think from imladris to the Ered Luin it is about 690 miles and from Ered Luin to westcoadt Beleriand about the same , so 1380 miles as a whole ca..It does make sense to seek Beleriands westcoast west of Ireland and Katar is about -17°.If Beleriands westcoast is about the same longitude... 2400 km east is ca. 51°, 15°. Round world of course, not flatworld... arrrgh!
Because this is not the only moment discussed here. The moment is the one in Rivendell when Frodo sees a menacing red star shining in the South. They are far more East there.
"But low in the South one star shone red. Frodo could see it from his window, deep in the heavens, burning like a watchful eye that glared above the trees on the brink of the valley."
BTW I always thought Cental Poland would be Mirkwood?
Mistaking latitude and longitude sorry. Frodos Latitude is certainly about oxford, longitude in Middle-earth in unclear but in the shaping of middel-earth the coast of Beleriand is congruent with that of Northwest africa so... givennthat Beleriand is somewhat smaller than Eriador a certain longitude might be guessed... Rivendell would be about 1300 miles east of the former Beleriandic coast which is maybe 15/16°. So rivendells longitude could be northwestern germany maybe..
1040 miles then from , say cape andras to Imladris? Ca 51° 7° then... cologne, germany...