Lúthien's Wardrobe

MithLuin

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Naturally, Lúthien will need a bunch of different costumes this season! So, I welcome a bunch of suggestions about what she can be wearing.

Here is an offering of an everyday costume for Lúthien to wear when dancing in Doriath.

Lúthien dancing.jpg
I imagine Lúthien would prefer a lightweight fabric that has a nice flow and drape to it, swirling about her as she dances. I went with an indigo blue, as blue is her iconic color, and trimmed it with yellow and gold accents with a floral/tree theme. Her belt has beech leaves, and long yellow ropes to move with her and be reminiscent of tree roots. The embroidery around the hem is some sort of gold five-petaled flower. She has a square neckline to be in keeping with old school Teleri designs.
 
MithLuin said:
Naturally, Lúthien will need a bunch of different costumes this season! So, I welcome a bunch of suggestions about what she can be wearing.

Here is an offering of an everyday costume for Lúthien to wear when dancing in Doriath.


I imagine Lúthien would prefer a lightweight fabric that has a nice flow and drape to it, swirling about her as she dances. I went with an indigo blue, as blue is her iconic color, and trimmed it with yellow and gold accents with a floral/tree theme. Her belt has beech leaves, and long yellow ropes to move with her and be reminiscent of tree roots. The embroidery around the hem is some sort of gold five-petaled flower. She has a square neckline to be in keeping with old school Teleri designs.
Click to expand...

So wild silk from wild-living moths and woad? Real indigo (indigofera tinctoria) comes from Asia and does not grow in "the North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea". Native Range: Tropical Africa, south-central Asia, Mexico, South America


There is a slight difference in tone:
www.denisekovnat.com

Woad vs. Indigo: Here's What Happens When You 'Get the Blues'

A blog about weaving, dyeing, knitting, spinning, sewing, and the related fiber arts.
www.denisekovnat.com www.denisekovnat.com
1687062108146.png
Above, Janet Leone's wool yarn dyed in indigo (left) and woad (right).

Or you wuold have to assue a regular trade route going all the way to Rhûn poper in the 1st Age which is not likely especially not with isolationist Doriath. Beyond that it would be far more expensive than gold and what would Doriath have to pay for it with?

About the shoes: is she not dancing barefoot?
Or does she have some kind of simple leather shoes without a disting sole cut from a singe piece of leather popular in antiquity ?

etnomuzeum.eu

Kierpce - Muzeum Etnograficzne w Krakowie

"Kierpce wykonane z jednego kawałka skóry bydlęcej. Szycie ""w rzemień"" (rzemień prostopadły do szwu kierpca)."...
etnomuzeum.eu etnomuzeum.eu
1687063428345.png
Nowadays they do only survive in the Tatra mountains (with a sole added)

1687063342140.png
artsandculture.google.com

Kierpce podhalańskie - Google Arts & Culture

Paradne męskie kierpce na obcasie zdobione metalowymi „cętkami”. Tego typu kierpce modne w okresie międzywojennym i po II wojnie światowej, nadal są noszon...
artsandculture.google.com artsandculture.google.com
1687063699732.png
1687371414542.png

demonstation how to make one piece Carpatian mountaineer leather shoes


this one has an added sole - so it is modernised - but still fun to watch... 😉

there are regional variations in forms but the way too make them is 5500 years old,
a truelly ancient shoe form:


1687438963551.png
bind shoes used for dancing in Ireland timestamp: 16:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgts7_b1JWY
 
Last edited:
Lúthien Grieving
(thanks to a cemetary statue as the model for this!)

Lúthien in Mourning.png

For this outfit, I have altered the color scheme, prefering cool, darkened tones. So, her blue is now a deeper shade. The lavender sleeves are now darker purple. Rather than yellows and golds, she has accents in silver and black. The belt is higher than her waist, changing the silouette (matching earlier designs for the Teleri). Rather than flowing and streaming around her, the fabric is now swathed closely about her. She is no longer dancing.

I considered adding a veil or cape to the outfit, but ultimately left it out. Do you think it would be preferable to add another layer?
 
I was picturing simple leather mocassins, yes.

"Indigo" was a reference to the name of the color in Paint. But yes, I imagine Melian could have brought Indigo from Valinor, in theory. If woad can be used to acheive a nice dark blue, that will work... but I don't think Lúthien is meant to be dressed in sky-blue. They could be using bilberries for blue dye, I suppose. We could go with alkanet if we wanted a dye native to Europe, but that's more purple, and Lúthien's outfit is described as blue, not purple. But I suppose that would work for the gauzy sleeves I've given her.
 
Last edited:
MithLuin said:
I was picturing simple leather mocassins, yes.

"Indigo" was a reference to the name of the color in Paint. But yes, I imagine Melian could have brought Indigo from Valinor, in theory. If woad can be used to acheive a nice dark blue, that will work... but I don't think Lúthien is meant to be dressed in sky-blue. They could be using bilberries for blue dye, I suppose. We could go with alkanet if we wanted a dye native to Europe, but that's more purple, and Lúthien's outfit is described as blue, not purple. But I suppose that would work for the gauzy sleeves I've given her.
Click to expand...

The history of real indigo is later and very bloody see eg. the Indigo revolt in India or the fact that indigo dyed cloth was used to purchase slaves in Africa - imho better to avoid it. Woad was the common blue pigment in Europe for millenia since the Neolithic.

Melian bringing plants?
I understand the Noldor - they were coming by ships but Melian just appeared in Beleriand - how could she have brought anything with her?
Still the plant would not grow in a temperate climate anyway. This is why the peasants in India had been exploited to the degree they have been. Otherwise the British would simply have grown it at home.
 
Last edited:
How dark blue is woad dye? It seems very light blue from the samples I've seen.

Indigo grows fine in South Carolina, which has a temperate climate.

Similarly, the Sindar have been established in Doriath long enough for them to be raising silk worms - no need to rely on wild silk in this context.
 
MithLuin said:
How dark blue is woad dye? It seems very light blue from the samples I've seen.

Indigo grows fine in South Carolina, which has a temperate climate.
Click to expand...
latitude.png

"Indigo" comes from Greek and means "from India".
mid 16th century: from Portuguese índigo, via Latin from Greek indikon, from indikos ‘Indian (dye)’ (see Indic).
Derived from Latin indicum (“indigo”), from Ancient Greek ἰνδικόν (indikón, “Indian dye”).


Pliny the Elder, The Natural History
John Bostock, M.D., F.R.S., H.T. Riley, Esq., B.A., Ed
BOOK XXXIII. THE NATURAL HISTORY OF METALS.
CHAP. 57. (13.)—CÆRULEUM.

It is not so long since that indicum was first imported to Rome, the price being seventeen denarii per pound. Painters make use of it for incisures, or in other words, the division of shadows from light.

Indigo for sure does not grow in Britain. This is far too far North. And Doriath is about the same latitude as the Shire and the Shire - as we know - corresponds with Oxford.

askfilo.com

Why the demand for Indian indigo? The indigo plant grows primar... | Filo

Solution For Why the demand for Indian indigo? The indigo plant grows primarlly in the tropics. By the thirteenth century Indian indigo was being used
askfilo.com askfilo.com

Woad:
1687068226273.png

Fermented Woad /Couched Woad and Indian Indigo:
1687068403266.png



Here you have a range from a scientifical paper:
one of the colours on the right is quite dark:
www.sciencedirect.com

Searching for blue: Experiments with woad fermentation vats and an explanation of the colours through dye analysis

The starting point for this research was the requirement to produce replicas of Iron Age textiles from Hallstatt in Austria using traditional methods.…
www.sciencedirect.com www.sciencedirect.com

1687070515081.png

And here compared to indigo:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...planation_of_the_colours_through_dye_analysis


woad 2.png

So one can get dark blues shade with woad if one takes the effort and knows what one is doing.

The Bai people in China can achieve very dark woad shades:
1687073789961.png

Here also the dark tone a woad master dyer from France (Denise Lambert from "L'Atelier des Bleus Pastel d'Occitanie") can achieve:
www.thesustainablegarment.com

Woad Natural Dye Workshop With Denise Lambert — The Sustainable Garment

Exploring the traditional Woad dying process in Southern France with Denise Lambert of Blue de Lectoure.
www.thesustainablegarment.com www.thesustainablegarment.com

1687075136452.png
1687083635145.png


MithLuin said:
Similarly, the Sindar have been established in Doriath long enough for them to be raising silk worms - no need to rely on wild silk in this context.
Click to expand...

No mulberry trees for silk cultivation in Doriath. But some kind of Saturniidae are native to that latitude like e.g. Saturnia pavonia. Would take a long time to process its silk but elves do not lack time.
 
Last edited:
I have no concern about the real-world history of indigo involving slavery and exploitation when considering Middle-earth history, as that would not be part of the story there unless we made it so. In other words, ethical production of indigo is perfectly possible...if you take out the part of the equation where northern nations exploit and colonize southern nations. Colonization and exploitation will be part of the story of latter day Númenor, but it is not part of the story of the First Age. It also has much more of an East-West component than strictly North vs South.

In English, the deep shade of the color blue is called indigo....and darker shades than that are called navy blue. So, for instance, there's a bird called an indigo bunting, and the male looks like this:
1687090748637.png
When we teach children the colors of the rainbow spectrum, we say ROYGBIV....which stands for red-orange-yellow-green-blue-indigo-violet.

I am fine using woad dye, as long as it can achieve brilliant deep blue colors.

I think that a combination of woad and alkanet would be able to achieve the variety of colors in Anastasia's flower decorations on Melian's costume:
1687093719058.png


Also, while the Sindar are currently settled in Doriath, they undertook a Great Journey from Cuiviénen to get there. So, people who live in Doriath have personal experience of a much wider geographical range, and could certainly have picked up souvenirs along the way. They took their time on that journey, lingering at various places along the way. And did Melian bring plants from Valinor? Well, they have wheat from Yavanna's fields in Valinor to make lembas in Doriath....sooo, yes.

Indigo can currently be grown in Luberon, in southern France:
www.provence-luberon-sothebysrealty.com

Indigo, the blue gold of the Luberon

One hectare of the plant was planted this year. A unique experiment in France that could offer new outlets for farmers in the Luberon We have a natural indigo of Provencal and French production, in organic, of very high quality and with very powerful coloring power,...
www.provence-luberon-sothebysrealty.com www.provence-luberon-sothebysrealty.com
Coincidentally, southern France is a region where beech forests, holly forests, and oak forests can all be found. So, it is not unthinkable that they'd be able to cultivate indigo in Doriath.


But let's try to keep this thread focused on Lúthien's costumes. If you would like to discuss the climate of Doriath, we can do so in the section of the forums set aside for sets and locations.
 

Attachments

  • 1687093223313.png
    1687093223313.png
    1,004.6 KB · Views: 1
Last edited:
MithLuin said:
In English, the deep shade of the color blue is called indigo....and darker shades than that are called navy blue.
Click to expand...

This was exactly my question in my first post here: Do you refer to the colour or the plant?
Indigo has three meaning in English, the shade, the chemical which causes it (with is almost identical for both indigo and woad) and plants from the family Indigofera. It was not cleat to me which exactly do you mean in the first post.

MithLuin said:
If you would like to discuss the climate of Doriath, we can do so in the section of the forums set aside for sets and locations.
Click to expand...

Do not think it would be worth an own thread? Would be just one entry. We do know beeches do grow there and the distribution of beeches in the the "North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea" is limited Southwards as you show on the maps you have attached above.

But still we should take care to avoid colours that are clearly anachronistic or even connected to modern day's artificial pigments. Most people still can recognise those unconsciously as they would recognise the use of poliester - it just looks "off".

But I am not against using "fiber optics" as that would correspond to "magic" and count as "special effects".
 
Last edited:
You are right - the climate issues we're discussing only warrant a single post, but I don't feel the need to make that post in the costume forum, so it is in the set and location forum, where it belongs:

Doriath

This is the kingdom of Thingol and Melian that is eventually protected by the Girdle of Melian; that means Neldoreth (mainly beech forest), Nivrim (mainly oak forest) and Region (a mixed forest of beech, birch, maples, chestnuts?) not Nan Elmoth or Brethil. Also included is...
forums.signumuniversity.org


As for the meaning of my use of the word 'indigo' initially, I am sorry it was not clear. I was referring to the color, the shade of blue.
 
Last edited:
The combination of deep blue and golden flowers always remined me of French royal robes:
Louis.jpg (900×623) (apollo-magazine.com)
1687101732499.png

It has a clearly grand royal connotations.

But should Luthien not have sleeves with golden flowers on them?

"And saw in wonder flowers of gold
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,"

52b89b5316c86e5a0bf121f1f0384a93.jpg (424×738) (pinimg.com)
1687103498302.png


1687103547976.png

70d28a43b376ce9432407647788ee65c.jpg (295×427) (pinimg.com)

1687104705468.png
 
Last edited:
Lúthien, as befits an elven princess, has multiple outfits. So certainly, she can have one like that as well.
 
MithLuin said:
Lúthien, as befits an elven princess, has multiple outfits. So certainly, she can have one like that as well.
Click to expand...

Another inspiration for "Golden flowers on blue sleeves"

f2upgmrhkjp81.png (770×960) (redd.it)

1687105398442.png

russian court gown worn by Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna, sister of Tsar Nicholas II, ca. 1890′s-1900′s

Reddit - https://preview.redd.it/r3dktpwxlj191.jpg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=f60ce8c4d8ea70b8b60aecc7587001eaaada8827

1687111326356.png
russian court dress worn by Empress Alexandra Feodorovna

ea4e7387ec887941f58141cad3f3f73f.jpg (1071×1401) (pinimg.com)
1687111466134.png
Grand Duchess Xenia of Russia Court Dress

Presumed_portrait_of_Princess_Henrietta_of_England_overlooking_a_crown_of_a_child_of_France_from_the_circle_of_the_Beaubrun_brothers.jpg (950×1568) (wikimedia.org)
1687112426473.png
Imagine Beren just coming form Nan Dungortheb in rags an seeing such sleeves - culture shock indeed.

Those seem fantasy designs - but very elvish:

7c719d8853d7e2a1e4b95bf1bebdac99.jpg (1024×1024) (pinimg.com)

1687111972630.png

b7826544f9116b8b6df929c1061eecf4.jpg (1024×1024) (pinimg.com)

1687112111898.png

8b75fe7fa50d47caa56ba0612592b4fd.jpg (1179×1700) (pinimg.com)

1687112783253.png

e7dbdb1e9438ca808fbdcf1854f24e96.jpg (1179×1805) (pinimg.com)

1687112857212.png

5300110728dc6276a66f229545066d5b.jpg (1032×1588) (pinimg.com)

1687113112870.png
 
Last edited:
Ange1e4e5 said:
What do we have for Elvish wedding traditions as far as attire is concerned?
Click to expand...

Do you think there would be a specific dresscode? Due to the long lives of elves, (Luthien is more than 3000 as far I do remember) I assume weddings would be relatively rare in the culture as you do not have cohorts of people growing up each year. This would have been different during the time of the wandering West from Cuivienen but that is ancient past even by elvish standards. Do would it not be a very individual affairs what one chooses to wear at one's wedding?
 
Last edited:
Here's a few more costume thoughts. I took images of dancers and added costumes to them.

Lúthien dancing 2.png

The top right is a butterfly-inspired golden dress. The belt is made of snowdrops, and the sleeves and trim are bluebells.

The bottom left is a dress, belt, and jacket. The jacket has blue sleeves with golden flower trim. The dress also has a layer of trim around the bottom.

The bottom right has several layers of ribbom as trim around the bottom and on the bodice, a sleeveless lavender overdress, and wide blue sleeves with colorful embroidery patterns.



As for wedding dresses, there will likely be some variation, yes. Bre has done a wedding dress for Galadriel. The wedding of Galadriel and Celeborn took place in the last episode of Season 4 in Nargothrond.
1687156095344.png
 
Last edited:
 
Here is a 'snowdrop dress' for Lúthien
Lúthien - snowdrop dress.jpg

The idea was to incorporate her heraldry symbol and colors, while creating a basic outfit slightly outside her typical color scheme.

The underdress is peachy orange with cap sleeves, and sheer brown sleeves in gauze or chiffon. The sleeves are trimmed in light green embroidery.
The overdress is a full skirt made of orangey-brown lightweight material. It is laced at the sides with light green cording for a snug fit through the bodice. There is no belt or waist cincture in this design. The dress has a square neckline with trim in dark and light green. Dark and light green trim is also found at the hem of the garment. Along the front seams of the dress, embroidery to depict snowdrops is found. Similar floral embroidery circles the hem of the dress. On the chest is an applique of her heraldic symbol.

She wears soft leather slippers in white/silver with light green stitching accents.


My intention is for Lúthien to wear the 'snowdrop dress' in Season 6 Episode 1, when she welcomes the refugee elves into Doriath. In this scene, she skips along the path with children, and flowers bloom at her feet.

Here is the snowdrop dress with some of the other designs I've been working on:
Lúthien dancing 2.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top