Notes for the Hosts of the Silmarillion Film Project Podcast

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Consider this thread an "Exec's Mailbag"!

On this thread, you are welcome to post a message that you would like to be passed along to the Hosts prior to a Silm Film broadcast. This message should be of a reasonable length (say, one paragraph) and convey something that you think it important be addressed on the broadcast during the upcoming session.

I will then copy your message verbatim, attach your name to it, and pass it along to the Hosts with the notes and powerpoint sessions that I prepare. Therefore, anything posted after Tuesday may be too late to be included with that week's session.

Please note that there is a 'one message per person per session' limit.

No comments or responses to other's messages are allowed on this thread. Any comments will be considered off-topic and will be deleted. This is one-way communication with the Hosts (Corey, Trish, and Dave). It is not a discussion thread. Please feel free to discuss elsewhere on the messageboard.

I hope this option will help alleviate some of the frustration of those who are not always able to participate live in a Silm Film session. Obviously, it will be up to the Hosts to choose how or when they wish to respond, but I can at least make sure they see your message.

Thank you all!
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
There are some things about S4E2 that concern me, but the biggest one is the abdication of Maedhros. If he does it too early in the episode, where do we go from there? What climax does that put us on a path towards? If it is too late, everything else is kinda waiting in the wings.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
What are the Noldor's, particularly the Fingolfinians' means of production before trade is established with the Feanoreans or the Sindar? Foraging? Pastoralism (mobile herding)? Horticulture? Agriculture? They'll need to survive for an extended period of time and we'll need to make sure they don't burn out all the resources in the area.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to speed things up? I don’t mean to be rude, but we’re supposed to be doing two episodes a session and for the last few, we’ve been doing only one.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I'm actually a bit disappointed at the moment...
while i do not share Faelivrin's harsh words of judgement i too feel that the execs are moving more into a direction that gives the project and the people involved unecessary restrictions instead of motivating and supporting their work.It's become a bit frustrating because this is a shared project of many hands and minds and i think the execs should inspire and council these instead of discourage and limit them.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to ask for the Hosts to open up a sub-forum for casting nominations for Season 4?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Sorry this is a little late, but it is possible for the Hosts to bring attention to the Nominations and encourage members to nominate?
 

Alcarohtar

Active Member
Probably too late, but I'll try:
Could we tie the stories of men into the elvish ones? For example having the story of Haleth be part of a Thingol/Galadriel/Finrod-storyline which covers the Haladin's struggle with xenophobic elves (Thingol) leading to their migration through Nan Dungortheb to Brethil, and Finrod persuading Thingol into letting them stay to protect his borders. The beorians could be part of Finrod/Angrod/Aegnor's storylines which covers their will to serve the elves and the differences of mortality and immortality. The people of Marach/Hador are part of several storylines: The bad guys (the council of Estolad and fake Amlach), the feanorians (Amras giving them Estolad, Real Amlach in service of Maedhros, and Hador fighting at Aglon), and finally the Fingolfin/Fingon storyline when they receive Dor-lómin and fights together with Fingolfin during the Bragollach. All of this would be about their dithering, and their wish to help the elves yet stay independent from them (i.e. not serving them as Bëor).
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I have two story ideas to pitch:

One involves Beor and observations I've had about the humans living in Nargothrond. Humans trying to learn from Elvish craftsmen would reach the limit of their capabilities quickly. They don't have 20 years to spend making a single blade, nor 500 years to finish an Elvish apprenticeship. That would leave humans far behind their neighbors in terms of skilled labor. That would leave humans two options: be productive at menial tasks where the skill ceiling is lower, or sloth. Sloth starts to look really good when the alternative may seem demeaning to you. One could even see a generation of purposeless, angry humans growing up in Nargothrond, one of whom being the descendant of Beor (son, grandson, whatever) who leads a bunch of folks back East at the Amlach event. Beor could see this happening as he gets older, and it could begin weighing heavily on his mind. On his deathbed, he can recommend to Finrod that the humans can't survive in Nargothrond. A certain amount of suffering and hard work is an important part of the human experience, without which, our psychology starts to seek out threats where none exist. Of course, being turned out of Nargothrond will only exacerbate the anger of Bereg/Baran/whomever it is. The conversation between Beor and Finrod might even be an opportunity to work in the sentiment of "what punishment isn't truly a gift" as well.

So, the second story idea involves Amlach. We've been given a lot of thought as to how Amlach winds up replaced at the council, but I'm also interested in what happens after. Amlach winds up living near Maedhros, but why? I was thinking that Amlach might feel like no one can really trust him after the Council, so he decides to go off into exile himself (much as we intend Annael to do). He and a small group of followers pass through the lands of Maedhros and the two meet. Maedhros, having suffered a not-entirely-different experience (assuming Amlach is 'detained' in some way), feels a certain kinship with Amlach and invites him to live with his followers on the lands near Himring.

I think that both of these events will present the movements with a lot of pathos, making what we are watching an interesting story, rather than just dudes moving around a map.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
My idea for the Amlach plotline, may be discussed as part of the Villains’ storyline:

Sauron sees that the House of Marach (later House of Hador) is the largest of the three Houses of the Edain, and the most likely to pose a military threat. So he decides to turn the House of Hador against the Elves in the area by luring the Men away using Orcs disguised as Elves (if Finrod can do it, no reason Sauron can’t). Since the House of Hador has had negative dealings with the Green Elves, they’re suspected and so does Amlach, making him ripe for Sauron’s manipulations. However, since Amlach might change his mind, Sauron has Amlach waylaid/incapacitated and impersonates him for the Council, leaving him guarded by Orcs (and maybe if we decide, for execution). But Maedhros finds the Orcs with Amlach and kills them. When the Orcs are revealed, Amlach realizes that he has been deceived and races to the Council, where he exposes Sauron. To atone for his mistake in trusting Sauron, he seeks service with Maedhros as gratitude.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I have two story ideas to pitch:

One involves Beor and observations I've had about the humans living in Nargothrond. Humans trying to learn from Elvish craftsmen would reach the limit of their capabilities quickly. They don't have 20 years to spend making a single blade, nor 500 years to finish an Elvish apprenticeship. That would leave humans far behind their neighbors in terms of skilled labor. That would leave humans two options: be productive at menial tasks where the skill ceiling is lower, or sloth. Sloth starts to look really good when the alternative may seem demeaning to you. One could even see a generation of purposeless, angry humans growing up in Nargothrond, one of whom being the descendant of Beor (son, grandson, whatever) who leads a bunch of folks back East at the Amlach event. Beor could see this happening as he gets older, and it could begin weighing heavily on his mind. On his deathbed, he can recommend to Finrod that the humans can't survive in Nargothrond. A certain amount of suffering and hard work is an important part of the human experience, without which, our psychology starts to seek out threats where none exist. Of course, being turned out of Nargothrond will only exacerbate the anger of Bereg/Baran/whomever it is. The conversation between Beor and Finrod might even be an opportunity to work in the sentiment of "what punishment isn't truly a gift" as well.

So, the second story idea involves Amlach. We've been given a lot of thought as to how Amlach winds up replaced at the council, but I'm also interested in what happens after. Amlach winds up living near Maedhros, but why? I was thinking that Amlach might feel like no one can really trust him after the Council, so he decides to go off into exile himself (much as we intend Annael to do). He and a small group of followers pass through the lands of Maedhros and the two meet. Maedhros, having suffered a not-entirely-different experience (assuming Amlach is 'detained' in some way), feels a certain kinship with Amlach and invites him to live with his followers on the lands near Himring.

I think that both of these events will present the movements with a lot of pathos, making what we are watching an interesting story, rather than just dudes moving around a map.

So, in line with this, I figured I'd throw in a rough timeline which would work in this context. I still have Bereg as a Beorian, and the Beorians migrating from Nargothrond before the Amlach Incident, mostly because keeping Bereg as a Beorian, and a descendant of Beor at that makes for a much more interesting story than having him just be a walk-on/walk-off Hadorian, whose leaving Beleriand doesn't have much impact on the viewers. It also gives more weight to Barahir's saving of Finrod later. Finrod learns that humans make great allies, but that the Valinor Impulse is even less workable for them than it was for the Noldor. Having the Council take place after the Beorians have moved allows us to tie it in more fully with the other events going on in Middle Earth as well, because we are seeing the Council in the context of a breakdown in Elf-Human relations.



455 (0 BDB) Dagor Bragollach

18 BDB Birth of Hurin (Hador 62, Galdor 32, Gloredhel 27, Hareth 25, Haldir 29)

20 BDB Beren born (Barahir 28)

22 BDB Galdor-Hareth and Gloredhel married (Hador 58, Galdor 28, Hareth 21, Gloredhel 23, Haldir 25)

45 BDB Gloredhel born (Hador 35, Galdor 5)

47 BDB Haldir born (Haleth 50, Halmar 25)

48 BDB Barahir born

50 BDB Birth of Galdor (Hador 30)

52 BDB Bregolas/Boromir born

55 BDB Council of Amlach

65 BDB Battle of Gelion-Ascar Stockade, Haldad and Haldar (37) killed, Haladin migrate to Brethil under leadership of Haleth (37)

70 BDB House of Beor moves to Dorthonion

72 BDB Halmar born (Haldad/Haleth 25)

75 BDB Beor dies.

80 BDB Hador born

95 BDB Bereg born

97 BDB Haleth and Haldar born

100 BDB Amlach born

100 BDB Estolad established

115 BDB House of Beor moves to Nargothrond
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Since this will be relevant to Andreth's story, I'd like to point out some concerns I have with the adaptation decision to have the House of Beor initially living in Nargothrond and propose an alternative.

Although Nargothrond is the best place to show the House of Beor living in close physical and cultural proximity to the Elves yet appear physically confined, this can also be achieved to a large extent by having the House of Beor settle first in southern Dorthonion and move to Ladros.
HouseOfBeorMigration.png

The House of Beor is still moving north as it distances itself from the Elves and participates more directly in the fight with Morgoth, and the visual difference can still be striking. In southern Dorthonion, the Men can build cozy little log cabins nestled among the pine trees down in a valley where Thangorodrim is not visible. The natural barriers created by the mountains and the forest, as well as Angrod and Aegnor's fortress nearby, will make their settlement seem safe and not part of the siege. Ladros can appear inhospitable and indefensible in contrast. It is near the the March of Maedhros, so it can look similar to the land around Himring. The House of Beor would not be able to build cozy cabins here; the people would need walls and fortresses.

In addition to the concerns already raised about issues with secrecy and overpopulation in Nargothrond, the House of Beor would be cut off from other Men and Elves, which seem uncharacteristically selfish and cruel for Finrod. If we want Finrod to parallel the Valar, we should emphasize his love for Men and desire to teach them in addition to his over-protectiveness. He should want to show show Men to the other Noldor and give the House of Beor opportunities to learn from them. Orome brought the Elves to Valinor; he didn't keep them to himself and hide them away from the other Valar.

Another major reason to have the House of Beor initially settle in southern Dorthonion is that Dorthonion will be a significant location in the Dagor Bragollach and Nargothrond will not. The loss of Dorthonion will impact the audience more if it is a place that has been shown all season, and Barahir and his band will be stubbornly refusing to leave their ancestral homeland rather than some place they moved to just a few episodes ago.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Here is my suggestion for the timeline and a genealogy that makes it possible. I only included the names of characters who will be important for either this season's story or the lineage of later characters. I also listed the ages of major characters at the events they will participate in.

The files are pretty large but hopefully high enough quality to zoom in.
 

Attachments

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
An idea for Hador: If we have Hador die of old age prior to the Dagor Bragollach (which we appear to be aiming at), maybe we open Episode 10 or 11 with the death of Hador, having received a premonition of the Dagor Bragollach, and Fingolfin takes that idea and runs with it that they should attack Angband, that now is the time for "the Big Push" to take Morgoth down once and for all. It would be a good way to pass the torch per se, and to introduce characters like Galdor (if we haven't already), Húrin, and Huor.
 
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