S04E02 Script Discussion

Rhiannon

Active Member
I like it a lot , but one thing immediately sprung to my mind:

Four arrows for a sack
of grain. Ten for a jar of honey. Thirty-
five for a donkey.


Those seem damn low prices for arrowheads and damn high prices for donkeys and grain!

I think a dozen arrowheads for 2-4 donkeys are a realistic price, possibly less if we assume the dwarves produce very high quality, 12 arrowheads can also easily be 200-300 l grain, depending on type, quality and how great the need is.

I'd gladly try to research realistic prices for honey if you tell me how much one jar is in weight!
You’re probably right. I was just making up random numbers because I wanted Norn to appear knowledgeable about the values of the goods the Dwarves and Sindar are trading. I could just have him say that a dozen arrows would be worth the donkeys or the grain or the honey.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Sure! I always look up the net for antique or medieval prices to get at last a vague feeling... (when i make up pricelists for ...let's say rpgs for example..)

We are never able to judge realistic prices anyway, we don't know how effective the sindar's agriculture is, we don't know how work intensive the dwarves metallurgy is...

Antique grain was very cheap because of the mass-labor of slaves, and still in times of need, war or bad harvests prices could be 8000 times as high as in good times.problem with donkeys... they were about the most cheap and worthless animals on the antique horsemarkets... still a good donkey could easily cost ten times the price of a not quite as good donkey, then we have areas where donkeys are bred and are mass-products ( so to say) and areas where they are not bred , but transport and work animals are in dire need... again, vast price differences!

Also arrowheads were a high-tech product in the medieval... , but according to time of need and how well trade and metal production and grain to feed workers worked better or less well they could get twice as expensive and more in comparison to other times.

Yet it always is still a good thing to compare prices to judge the value of things in relation to another... better than to pull prices out of nowhere or to look for modern prices, which are way out of relation to ancient prices, except maybe if you look to historical frontier regions or third world countries... then it can sometimes get pretty close!

(I had to edit my own post four times at last, becaUse everytime i realised i had made a mistake )

But what i like is that you chose arrowheads for their currency! Makes sense in a lot of ways..
 
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MithLuin

Well-Known Member
The Petty-dwarves can be referred to as the Houseless Dwarves (by themselves) or the Exiles (by other Dwarves).

Celeborn was requested as a witness to events by the Hosts, but I agree that it's tough when we don't really want him witnessing things :p. So, let's see how they react to this......they likely won't remember what they requested ;).
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
*sights* the more often i read your scripts the more i'd hope we actually COULD make this series in real... and if only in very simple animation..

There's the one theory that the pettydwarves called themselves the "Nûlukhiz" and that that term might mean "Moondwarf", though i think they were rather called "Narûk", which might mean either "rushing or violent ones " or "twisted ones", though one might be a self-identification, the other a xenonym.Unfortunately i know little of khuzdul... it was never a language i was very good at or very involved with.. (i recently found that "Makalûk" might mean "exiled" in neokhuzdul and neokhuzdul for "houseless" might be "Azanarbîn"... though i'm not really sure if that is how khuzdul works..)
 
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Rhiannon

Active Member
*sights* the more often i read your scripts the more i'd hope we actually COULD make this series in real... and if only in very simple animation..

There's the one theory that the pettydwarves called themselves the "Nûlukhiz" and that that term might mean "Moondwarf", though i think they were rather called "Narûk", which might mean either "rushing or violent ones " or "twisted ones", though one might be a self-identification, the other a xenonym.Unfortunately i know little of khuzdul... it was never a language i was very good at or very involved with.. (i recently found that "Makalûk" might mean "exiled" in neokhuzdul and neokhuzdul for "houseless" might be "Azanarbîn"... though i'm not really sure if that is how khuzdul works..)
If we do use Khuzdul names for the Petty Dwarves, they probably wouldn't be revealed until we meet actual Petty Dwarves, since the other Dwarves are so secretive about their language.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Yeah sure... i was just ... throwing around thoughts! I immediately thought.. at that moment... if it's a very emmotional second for norn... he might fall back into khuzdzdul and use a native term... as a figure of expression just in that moment... to show that he's into something very ... personal at just that moment.

Btw. Theres some indication that the pt are not that secretive about their language as other dwarves are... but maybe that concerns just their own peculiar dialect, which seems to be somewhat removed from common khuzdul...
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
They are the Noegyth Nibin,
(bitterly)
no better than beasts, and the Sindar
would do well to hunt them as such.

But WOULD Norn say such a thing?

But they still acknowledged their kinship and resented any injuries done to them. Indeed it was one of their grievances against the Eldar that they had hunted and slain their lesser kin, who had settled in Beleriand before the Elves came there. This grievance was set aside, when treaties were made between the Dwarves and the Sindar, in consideration of the plea that the Petty-dwarves had never declared themselves to the Eldar, nor presented any claims to land or habitations, but had at once attacked the newcomers in darkness and ambush.

I'm sorry that the only things i had so far on your scripts were criticism... :(

Because overall i really LIKE your script, the points i mentioned were the only small points which bothered me... while everything i did NOT say much about i think is really good actually!
 

Rhiannon

Active Member
Please do criticize my scripts! I love it, and that's the only way for them to get better.

I don't recall there being any reference to the Sindar accidentally hunting the Petty Dwarves next season, so I wanted to make some kind of allusion to it. Although other Dwarves might resent the injuries done to the Petty Dwarves, Norn probably doesn't. I could change it so he says "If ever the Sindar have seen them in Beleriand, they would have appeared little more than beasts to hunt." Do you think that would work better?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Please do criticize my scripts! I love it, and that's the only way for them to get better.

I don't recall there being any reference to the Sindar accidentally hunting the Petty Dwarves next season, so I wanted to make some kind of allusion to it. Although other Dwarves might resent the injuries done to the Petty Dwarves, Norn probably doesn't. I could change it so he says "If ever the Sindar have seen them in Beleriand, they would have appeared little more than beasts to hunt." Do you think that would work better?
I do think I like that better. Because it implies that it may actually have happened.
 
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