S04E08 Script Discussion

MithLuin said:
One disadvantage of talking about the season long story arcs up front is that it's been long enough that we've all forgotten what we talked about 😛

Círdan aiding Fingon is likely meant to be in the next episode and is just 'left over' from when this was the Dagor Aglareb episode. Meaning, I think it's assisting with the attack down the coast. At the very least, it's showing that Círdan does not let the Ban prevent him from working together with the Noldor.

But I think it's fine to keep this an Angband-centric episode, leave the audience in suspense (at least a bit) as to what's going on with Fingolfin and his reaction to Thingol's Ban.

Certainly, the focus of this episode should be on what happens to Edhellos, so having Curufin's wife be the eyes through which we see that works.

Edhellos' story: Prisoner in Angband. Refuses to aid Sauron, who is frustrated because he thought he'd broken her. Morgoth, who has returned from the East to check in on Angband(?) essentially says 'watch this' and puts the SoBD on Edhellos. Sauron is majorly impressed. Edhellos is broken - completely. She's crushed. She perhaps can't even speak coherently. Morgoth can use her as a puppet. After demonstrating this, they abandon her, leaving her for the Noldor to find. The Noldor find her, and while dismayed, try to treat her.

Díriel's story: Captured (how?) and brought to Angband. Meets the captive Edhellos. Sauron tries to get the elven prisoners to work for him, with very limited effect. Díriel refuses. Morgoth works the Spell of Bottomless Dread; the elven captives see the aftermath. Suddenly, cooperating with Sauron becomes a much more reasonable option. Díriel (and others) become slave labor in Angband, aiding the war machine that is fighting their own people.
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Maybe Diriel could be captured while out searching for ore or other raw materials.
 
You’ve probably thought of this but I’m slightly concerned about Diriel’s story and how it affects Celebrimbor’s. In the last session, there was a discussion about this, and whether she should be taken captive later, perhaps next season, in order to make room for scenes showing their relationship. Do we want to tell a backstory in flashback? It could be done.
 
I think we will have to show flashbacks to her when we show Celebrimbor getting ready to split with his family. But yeah, the idea of separating them so soon is a bit rough. The alternative would be to make Rhogrin or Annael the captive in this episode. But then...how does it end?
 
If it was Rhogrin, it would end with him breaking out. Perhaps taking Edhellos with him?
 
If we have Celebrimbor and Orodreth find Edhellos this episode, we could also show flashbacks then. Celebrimbor would be happy that Orodreth has found Edhellos but even more worried about his own mother. His thoughts about her would be the flashbacks establishing their relationship.

Maybe Diriel could give Edhellos a necklace or something when they meet in Angband and Edhellos would have it with her when she is found. Celebrimbor would then recognize it and know for sure that Diriel is a captive.
 
I like that. It’s really good. But I guess I’m not entirely happy with the fact that Diriel wasn’t introduced earlier. I was hoping for an alternative.
 
If we have Rhogrin escape in this episode (or whatever episode we have him escape in), could we have a scene of him at the forefront (if he does not escape on his own), cutting his way through a hallway of Orcs like Darth Vader in Rogue One?

Or is a stupid idea?
 
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Ange1e4e5 said:
If we have Rhogrin escape in this episode (or whatever episode we have him escape in), could we have a scene of him at the forefront (if he does not escape on his own), cutting his way through a hallway of Orcs like Darth Vader in Rogue One?

Or is a stupid idea?
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It's certainly not a stupid idea. I'm pretty sure that everyone has had a similar idea of what this looks like.
 
Haakon said:
I like that. It’s really good. But I guess I’m not entirely happy with the fact that Diriel wasn’t introduced earlier. I was hoping for an alternative.
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This season's script outlines have not yet been submitted. I'd say would could find a way to retcon her into an earlier episode.
 
If it's at all possible, a scene that shows her relationship to Celebrimbor would be fantastic. Any "Celebrimbor, help me with this", "Curufin, have you seen our son?", "Celebrimbor, you don't have to do what you're father does at all times" would be great. ”Celebrimbor my boy, I know you miss your grandfather, but stop dreaming, it’s time for celebration, come and dance with us!”
 
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Haakon said:
If it's at all possible, a scene that shows her relationship to Celebrimbor would be fantastic. Any "Celebrimbor, help me with this", "Curufin, have you seen our son?", "Celebrimbor, you don't have to do what you're father does at all times" would be great. ”Celebrimbor my boy, I know you miss your grandfather, but stop dreaming, it’s time for celebration, come and dance with us!”
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I was thinking the Mereth Aderthad would be a decent place also. Though I'd hate to make @Rhiannon feel compelled to adjust her script over it. 🙂
 
Nicholas Palazzo said:
I was thinking the Mereth Aderthad would be a decent place also. Though I'd hate to make @Rhiannon feel compelled to adjust her script over it. 🙂
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I don't have any problem at all adjusting my script. Curufin did not go to the Mereth Aderthad, so I don't think his wife and son would be there without him. However, I'm currently working on a script for episode 1 of this season, and I could probably fit a scene with Celebrimbor and Diriel in there or in episode 2 or 3.
 
I added Celebrimbor and Diriel to the scene in episode 1 where the news of Fingolfin crossing the Helcaraxe reaches the Feanorian camp:

INT. MAGLOR'S TENT - DAY

MAGLOR, CURUFIN, DIRIEL, and AMRAS are inside the tent, looking at a hastily drawn map of their camp and the surrounding area.

CURUFIN
We can gather wood from the forests here –

DIRIEL
- and stone from here –

CURUFIN
- to build our barricades.

CELEBRIMBOR enters. He looks at Curufin, then at Maglor, then back at Curufin.

CELEBRIMBOR
The messenger hath returned.

MAGLOR
And what news doth he bring of the other camp?

CELEBRIMBOR
Fingolfin and his people walked across the Helcaraxe.

MAGLOR
They walked? How did they survive?

CELEBRIMBOR
Fingolfin said that many of his people died.

MAGLOR
How many?

CELEBRIMBOR
We do not know. Fingolfin asked immediately of the ships. Our messenger told him that the ships were burned then rode away.

CURUFIN
What else did our messenger tell him?

CELEBRIMBOR
He mentioned that Feanor was dead and Maedhros captured, as you requested.
(to Amras)
He said nothing of your brother.

AMRAS
(to Curufin)
What a shame! If Fingolfin knew that our father in his madness had burned one of his own sons alive, perhaps the knowledge of Feanor’s death would relieve him enough to prevent him from attacking us.

CELEBRIMBOR
As it is, I do not think he will attack us at present.

CURUFIN
We must remain vigilant, nonetheless. When the news has sunk in, he will surely demand to know more.

MAGLOR
(to Curufin)
And he would already know more if thou hadst not countered my orders to our messenger. Fingolfin hath the right to know all that has passed. We do not wish to provoke him to war by keeping secrets from him. Do not forget that I am eldest and king.

CURUFIN
(bowing and stepping out of the tent)
I do not forget it. I merely thought it wiser to refrain from revealing all our regrettable deeds at once.

Diriel and Celebrimbor follow him out of the tent.

EXT. MAGLOR'S CAMP - DAY

CURUFIN, CELEBRIMBOR, and DIRIEL converse just outside Maglor’s tent.

CURUFIN
Thou needst take care to recognize Maglor as king. Deliverest thy news to him, not to me. I do not seek to usurp his place.

CELEBRIMBOR
I know, father, but is still not right to so directly counter his orders.

DIRIEL
Celebrimbor, thy father hath the interests of us all at heart. Trust him.
(to Curufin)
Although Celebrimbor does have a point.

CURUFIN
Maglor sent the messenger before I had the chance to advise him. I will not be so heavy-handed next time.
 
My notes:

S04E08 Darkness Falls


Edhellos
Diriel
Sauron


Teaser
Dain returns to the mountain, frustrated with the situation in Dale and is immediately confronted by Dis. She has been trying to get a chance to speak with him about the death of her brother and sons. The conversation quickly escalates into a shouting match since Dis feels like her family sacrificed too much for the throne upon which Dain sits. She storms out leaving Dain even more frustrated but perhaps a bit puzzled.

Act I

Diriel’s Capture: Celebrimbor and Diriel are prospecting in a cave in East Beleriand. They split up at a fork. Diriel and her group accidentally happen upon a party of werewolves, hiding from the daylight and are ambushed. Celebrimbor’s group hears the shouts and clash of weapons and run to help to find Diriel’s entire party gone.

Sauron and Edhellos in her cell. Sauron is trying to get more information from her but she is defiant. When Sauron leaves her cell, having failed, Gothmog is waiting for him. Gothmog mocks Sauron’s efforts. He spent all that time on his play acting and no clear tactical advantage has materialized. Has a single elf even been killed. Gothmog wants to know one reason why he shouldn’t just kill all of the prisoners.

Orodreth arrives at Himring, delivering news of the Ban to Maedhros in private. Maedhros also expresses his sympathy for Edhellos’ capture, as well as congratulates him for his marriage. Maedhros’ reaction is muted to the news, but sad and relates more to what Thingol now knows.

Diriel and the survivors of her prospecting group are brought into general pop at Iron Hell. Diriel spots Edhellos off by herself and immediately approaches her and asks her a question. Edhellos leaps up and pins her to a wall. It becomes clear that Edhellos trusts anyone might not be who they appear to be. Diriel backs off, horrified.

Act II

Celebrimbor arrives at Himring to ask for help from Maedhros in attempting to rescue his captured mother. Maedhros is sympathetic (for obvious reasons), but cannot commit to storming Angband. Orodreth is present and offers to help Celebrimbor in his search. They ask Maedhros questions about Angband and he regretfully gives them what little intel he knows. This dialogue is over a flying tour of the pits of Angband. Maedhros gives his blessing but not his hope.

Sauron comes to the pits and has a prisoner extracted for questioning. Orcs come down wooden ladders they lower into the pit and lower a lasso thing over one of the elves who is then rapidly drawn up out of the pit.The Orcs (unarmed) begin to ascend the ladders when one of the Elves (Diriel’s chief prospector) rushes forward to follow them. Archers from above loose a single arrow which embeds itself in the floor in front of him and he stops. After both the Orcs and Sauron have left, Diriel is staring at the arrow and picks it up, snapping the shaft a hand’s breadth from the head.

Orodreth and Celebrimbor are on the road. They discuss some of the political figures to whom they are related. Orodreth is very attached to his uncle, Finrod. When Feanor comes up in conversation, Celebrimbor doesn’t deny Feanor’s crimes/flaws, but relates the side of Feanor with which he was most familiar. His grandfather and his teacher. He describes the love which Feanor lavished on his family. Feanor’s misdeeds are in the past, and Feanor can no longer hurt anyone. Speaking ill of him does him no harm and no one else any good.

Morgoth returns to Angband. When asked how his expedition went, he says that the work is not yet complete, but it is going gloriously. And there was no attempt by the Valar to undermine his efforts. Gothmog, Boldog, Sauron, Tevildo, Draughluin, and Thuringwethil are all there amongst other of Morgoth’s court. Gothmog reports that their armies have been restored to their former strength and more. When Sauron begins to describe his works, Gothmog interrupts him to mock his efforts. He has been accomplishing nothing, going to parties and playing dress-up with elves. When Morgoth gives Sauron a chance to explain, Sauron tells Morgoth about the kinslaying, which makes Big M extremely happy. Morgoth asks what the result of this has been, and Sauron tells him that no help will come to the Noldor from Doriath. Gothmog finds this subtlety amusingly miniscule. Morgoth’s reaction is more ambiguous and he says that he will speak to Sauron more alone.
 
And More:


Act III

The prisoners in Angband are working at Diriel’s direction to chisel handholds in the pit wall using the arrowhead. It is a complicated effort, requiring lookouts and distractions to prevent the guards from figuring out what is going on. Edhellos stands apart but can see what is being done. Diriel tries again to speak with her. Edhellos reveals that a spy could look like anyone. She makes reference to not having any light or hope. Diriel is sympathetic to this and admits to her that she cannot prove who she is. But she can share some food, which she does.

Orodreth and Celebrimbor are tracking werewolves, approaching Thangorodrim in a gorge. They are obviously nervous, but covering with humor. They joke about simply knocking on the front gate and asking for their mothers back. They get some strained levity in before we realize that they are being watched from above by a vampire…

Sauron breaks down what is going on with his projects. He reveals that captured elves have told him about the Kinslaying, and about Thingol’s Ban. Morgoth presses for more usefulness, and Sauron admits that he has been less successful with turning the Elves into sleeper agents. Morgoth is not concerned with this as a problem.

In the pits, work progresses slowly. Some of the lookouts have joined the “Elvish Pyramid” that is holding up whomever is doing the chiselling, so they don’t notice some Orcs approaching from the direction closest to the makeshift stair. Edhellos sees them, and moves into the light and begins to shout at them. At first, it causes alarm amongst the Elves who think she is attracting attention, until Diriel realizes that the Orcs are not looking down at the Elves immediately below them. The workers are able to cover their tracks before they are noticed. After the Orcs move on, Edhellos joins in the effort.

Act IV

Celebrimbor and Orodreth are now quite near to Thangorodrim. Orodreth begins to speak of Angrod and how difficult things have been for him. He admits that his father has always had a tempermental streak, and that Edhellos was a calming influence. He relates that he shared his father’s anger as they crossed the Helcaraxe. As his anger dissipated he wasn’t sure what else would keep him going across the ice. Edhellos helped him realize that it was hope that could keep them on. This leads Celebrimbor to relate the story of when he broke into the Silmaril vault, and was attacked by an angry Feanor. Curufin berated him for setting his grandfather off, but Diriel was the only one aside from Finwe who was concerned for him. We see some flashbacks of this with these descriptions. Orodreth is understandably horrified by this story. He asks Celebrimbor about possibly obtaining the Silmarils while they are in Angband. Celebrimbor says that he swore no oath. They should focus on getting their mothers back.

Morgoth and Sauron are surveying the pits where the captives are held. Sauron drops down into the pit and grabs Edhellos while the other elves retreat from him. She speaks defiantly to him, and Sauron ignores her and talks to Morgoth about his frustrations. Perhaps the Elves are truly better off dead. Morgoth says that worse fates could befall them. Edhellos gets Sauron’s attention by saying that whatever is done to her, the sun still shines. Morgoth proceeds to put the SoBD on her. She seems almost catatonic at first, and Sauron isn’t certain what has happened until Morgoth commands Edhellos to show them what the Elves have been up to. Edhellos walks right up to Diriel who is near the hidden stair and plucks the arrowhead from where it is on her person. Diriel looks on in horror as Edhellos proceeds to sweep the dust off the hidden, carved handholds. Sauron’s reaction goes from shock to appreciation, tinged with some suspicion (That couldn’t have happened to me!?!?!?!). Morgoth then asks for Sauron to choose another. Sauron picks out Diriel’s assistant. Diriel leaps forward and insists that they don’t have to do this. She bows before them and says that the Elves will obey them without further resistance. Morgoth smiles at this.

Celebrimbor and Orodreth arrive near the foot of Thangorodrim where the werewolf trail seems to have gone cold. After an apparently fruitless search, they find a pile of bodies. One of them is someone Celebrimbor recognizes one of his mother’s companions (a [distinctive] background character from the pit) then, they find Edhellos, who turns out to be alive, but wounded. Orodreth is joyful about this, but makes eye contact with Celebrimbor who nonverbally gives assent to this little celebration. Celebrimbor begins to search for some kind of door when Edhellos opens her eyes and begins screaming as if in terror. They do their best to quiet her, but even then, Celebrimbor reluctantly admits that they should get her out of there. Which they do.

Tag
Dain summons Dis not to his throne room but to a large workshop in the mountain, newly restored with all the coolest gadgets. He then says that it is hers as a gift. A place to teach students her craft and create a new legacy. He offers her his son, Thorin Stonehelm as her first student.
 
It is still an open question as to what the SoBD looks like. We either could not remember or were unwilling to work it out when we got to it at 1 AM.
 
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