Script Discussion S05E09

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Hey, this is late in coming *again*.

This episode's main storyline will focus on the romance of Aegnor and Andreth. My recollection is that they more or less fall into it over time rather than any kind of "Love at First Sight".

We're also wrapping up the story of why the Dwarves aren't committing more military resources to the conflict with Morgoth, and revealing that Annael's under the influence. If there is a way to tie those two stories together, it has not yet occurred to me, but I would be interested in any ideas.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Hey, this is late in coming *again*.

This episode's main storyline will focus on the romance of Aegnor and Andreth. My recollection is that they more or less fall into it over time rather than any kind of "Love at First Sight".

We're also wrapping up the story of why the Dwarves aren't committing more military resources to the conflict with Morgoth, and revealing that Annael's under the influence. If there is a way to tie those two stories together, it has not yet occurred to me, but I would be interested in any ideas.
Maybe Fingon (with Annael in his retinue) visits the Dwarves, the Dwarf-King (I'm not sure which one we'd choose to visit) says why he's not helping out, Thurwingwethil pays a visit to Annael ("You have to invite me"), Annael tells her about the Dwarf King's lack of interest and that he doesn't need to be bothered with for the Dagor Bragollach (note that Nogrod and Belegost are unscathed).
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Maybe Fingon (with Annael in his retinue) visits the Dwarves, the Dwarf-King (I'm not sure which one we'd choose to visit) says why he's not helping out, Thurwingwethil pays a visit to Annael ("You have to invite me"), Annael tells her about the Dwarf King's lack of interest and that he doesn't need to be bothered with for the Dagor Bragollach (note that Nogrod and Belegost are unscathed).
That's not a bad idea.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I would like to see if we can use Annael's scene(s) to get Fingolfin back on the viewer's minds. He doesn't necessarily have to appear, but the High King's viewpoint should feature prominently.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I would like to see if we can use Annael's scene(s) to get Fingolfin back on the viewer's minds. He doesn't necessarily have to appear, but the High King's viewpoint should feature prominently.
Perhaps Fingon is traveling on behalf of his father?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I would like to see if we can use Annael's scene(s) to get Fingolfin back on the viewer's minds. He doesn't necessarily have to appear, but the High King's viewpoint should feature prominently.
If Annael has a home in Mithrim, it wouldn't be that hard for him to receive the information he divulged right from Fingolfin's mouth.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Hey, this is late in coming *again*.

This episode's main storyline will focus on the romance of Aegnor and Andreth. My recollection is that they more or less fall into it over time rather than any kind of "Love at First Sight".

We're also wrapping up the story of why the Dwarves aren't committing more military resources to the conflict with Morgoth, and revealing that Annael's under the influence. If there is a way to tie those two stories together, it has not yet occurred to me, but I would be interested in any ideas.
From what I recall of the sessions on Andreth, her relationship with Aegnor was built on them each having a trait that they liked about the other.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I think the idea there is that neither of them go into this expecting to fall in love.

Andreth has had a 'working friendship' with Aegnor's older brother for some time, and if she expects anything of this new elven lord, it is perhaps more of the same. She needs to interact with Aegnor for the sake of the community being built at Ladros, and so she goes into it wanting to be cordial and friendly and build a good connection. But it's strictly business from her side, despite him being a lovely looking elf lord (at least at first).

And from Aegnor's perspective, the Men are new. He's curious, and views them as a bit of a novelty. He knows that Finrod likes them, and has an uncomfortable pet/friendship relationship with them, but Aegnor likely doesn't expect anything more than that. He's interested in getting to see for himself who they are, but it's not like he went to visit them looking for a potential wife.

And yet.

Once they do meet, and get to know one another, and spend time working together, their mutual respect and admiration grows into something much more than a cordial working relationship. They anticipate time spent together, enjoy one another's company, and, yes, fall in love. I think this catches them both by surprise a bit, but neither one denies it, and so they do have a brief relationship, though it does not last for very long or get to the point of plans to marry. Neither one doubts the truth that the other loves them, and yet....no dice.

And then neither of them marries anyone else, either, which suggests that they (essentially) chose one another, but chose to remain apart rather than marry. It's a sad story.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I think the idea there is that neither of them go into this expecting to fall in love.

Andreth has had a 'working friendship' with Aegnor's older brother for some time, and if she expects anything of this new elven lord, it is perhaps more of the same. She needs to interact with Aegnor for the sake of the community being built at Ladros, and so she goes into it wanting to be cordial and friendly and build a good connection. But it's strictly business from her side, despite him being a lovely looking elf lord (at least at first).

And from Aegnor's perspective, the Men are new. He's curious, and views them as a bit of a novelty. He knows that Finrod likes them, and has an uncomfortable pet/friendship relationship with them, but Aegnor likely doesn't expect anything more than that. He's interested in getting to see for himself who they are, but it's not like he went to visit them looking for a potential wife.

And yet.

Once they do meet, and get to know one another, and spend time working together, their mutual respect and admiration grows into something much more than a cordial working relationship. They anticipate time spent together, enjoy one another's company, and, yes, fall in love. I think this catches them both by surprise a bit, but neither one denies it, and so they do have a brief relationship, though it does not last for very long or get to the point of plans to marry. Neither one doubts the truth that the other loves them, and yet....no dice.

And then neither of them marries anyone else, either, which suggests that they (essentially) chose one another, but chose to remain apart rather than marry. It's a sad story.
So this was something that I was getting into when Andreth was being discussed in 5.09: If it's a mere dalliance and Andreth, whose idea it was to separate from the Nargothrond community, had no intentions outside of business, and the end of their relationship was mutual, why is she so bitter?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
We unfortunately were unable to get through the entire episode on Sunday, due in large part to some technical difficulties on my end. Hopefully, we'll be able to work out this episode on Sunday.

Here is what we have so far:

The Silmarillion Film Project
Season 5 Episode 9:
Central conflict:
A-Plot:
Protagonist: Andreth
B-Plot:
POV character:
Frame:

Episode Outline

Teaser: Frame - Harad -

Act I
Scene 1: Ladros - Aegnor, Lord of Dorthonion, meets Andreth, leader of the House of Bëor in the new community in Ladros (2 years after the move)

Scene 2: Mithrim - Fingolfin gives Annael a mission.

Scene 3:. Ladros - Andreth and Aegnor both show themselves to be interesting people. Aegnor has a sense of humor, Andreth is a sharp-witted, foresighted leader.

Scene 4: Himring - Maedhros dispatches one of his brothers to Dorthonion. Dwarves arrive for a construction project.

Act II
Scene 5: Dorthonion - Love story

Scene 6: Himring - Dwarf story

Scene 7: Dorthonion - Love story

Scene 8: Dorthonion - Council of the Elves to discuss the Siege.

Act III
Scene 9: Himring - Dwarf story

Scene 10: Dorthonion - Andreth and Aegnor discuss the ‘elves do not marry in times of war’ issue. The idea is floated that if they left the north and the war behind, this would not be a barrier….

Scene 11: Dorthonion - Angrod and Aegnor discuss the difficulties of loss associated with a marriage to a mortal.

Scene 12: Ladros - Andreth prepares a ‘successor’ by training young Bregolas to take on some leadership responsibilities. Her stated reason: she’s not a warrior. Real reason: she wants to prepare her people for her impending absence if she runs off with Aegnor.

Act IV
Scene 13: Ladros - Andreth and Aegnor meet for the last time at Lake Aeluin. She is prepared to leave with him.

Scene 14: Himring - Climax of dwarf story

Scene 15: Ladros - Aegnor tells Andreth that he cannot be with her. She feels betrayed.

Scene 16: Mithrim - Annael gets ready for bed and goes to sleep. Thuringwethil enters his bedroom and ensourcels him, pulling memories from his mind.

Tag : Frame - Harad -
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
And now, the complete outline.


The story in this episode focuses on culture clashes and misunderstandings, as well as some consideration of the concept of duty.
 

Patrick Graham

New Member
Excellent Outline, loved the Aegnor/Andreth storyline. As was discussed in the discussion Maedhros could eventually garrison the eastern outpost with his small contingent of men possibly under the command of Amlach. I think this would be Maedhros' main reason for turning down Fingolfin's big push later in the season, this reason being we are not yet strong enough, we need a few more generations of men to bolster our forces. A big question is how does Maedhros win over the Dwarves in the future to participate in The Union Of Maedhros and the Nirnaeth.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Excellent Outline, loved the Aegnor/Andreth storyline. As was discussed in the discussion Maedhros could eventually garrison the eastern outpost with his small contingent of men possibly under the command of Amlach. I think this would be Maedhros' main reason for turning down Fingolfin's big push later in the season, this reason being we are not yet strong enough, we need a few more generations of men to bolster our forces. A big question is how does Maedhros win over the Dwarves in the future to participate in The Union Of Maedhros and the Nirnaeth.
My hope is to have these dwarves present during the assault on Himring in the Dagor Bragollach. When they are forced to take up arms to defend themselves, they wind up fighting alongside the Noldor, which has an impact on Azaghal's policy.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
And now, the complete outline.


The story in this episode focuses on culture clashes and misunderstandings, as well as some consideration of the concept of duty.
Frame suggestion: Gandalf commits a faux-pas of some sort. Or he offends the queen; the latter is more likely in my view since should be familiar with the Haradrim culture by this point and wouldn’t do something so foolish.
 
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