Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Ok, here we go again. This time without the oops. 27MAY @ 8 ET is the time we shall commence (close to that anyway). If you're interested in attending via Zoom, let me know!
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Script Discussion S06E04
- Thread starter Nicholas Palazzo
- Start date
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Do you mean 24 May? 17 May was three days ago.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Nope. I mean 27 May!
Odola
Well-Known Member
So, I myself would like the seasons of the "Song of Beren and Luthien" sung by Aragorn to be followed.
And I would not like Beren to have his sword when entering Doriath, as violating a border is one thing, violating a border armed is another. Not reporting an armed forced entry would place Luthien in a "traitor to her nation" position. An unarmed refugee in need of healing is another matter than an armed warrior.
Also regarding the question why Luthien does not approach Beren straight away - imho he seems to her like a hurt bird one would find in one's garden - one would treat it (or get it treated) with gloves on and then let it fly away. Imho she does not originally intend to "keep him" (yet). I think she expects him to leave of his own volition once he is completely well again. But still she does the first dance performance - the one among the hemlock ambels - imho to see if and how humans react to her dancing.
And I would not like Beren to have his sword when entering Doriath, as violating a border is one thing, violating a border armed is another. Not reporting an armed forced entry would place Luthien in a "traitor to her nation" position. An unarmed refugee in need of healing is another matter than an armed warrior.
Also regarding the question why Luthien does not approach Beren straight away - imho he seems to her like a hurt bird one would find in one's garden - one would treat it (or get it treated) with gloves on and then let it fly away. Imho she does not originally intend to "keep him" (yet). I think she expects him to leave of his own volition once he is completely well again. But still she does the first dance performance - the one among the hemlock ambels - imho to see if and how humans react to her dancing.
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Vibes
New Member
I would like to join via zoom if possible
Odola
Well-Known Member
Beren has to have Bregor's Bow with him when entering Doriath.
It might be unstrung, as he had his own bow in Nan Dungortheb - which he probably lost/damaged&discarded.
But as Bregor's Bow is a heirloom of his house in future, so he has to have it.
He might leave it in a kind of shelter he makes for himself in Doriath (as he wanders there for months before being taken to Menegroth he has to have made or have found himself some kind of shelter to sleep in. Still, as he does not hunt anymore, he will not be using it anyway, so he probably leaves it at his sleeping place.)
When Beren leaves Doriath for Nargothrond he might have the bow restrung and take it with him to leave it Nargothrond before he leaves with Finrod for former Tol Sirion - where they do intend to dress up as orcs - so such kind of bow would give them away.
From Nargothornd it can be given back to Beren at his wedding by Orodreth/Gil-Galad (propably having undergone some elvish maintenance/repairs/ embelishments), or to Dior ot to any of his descendants at any time we see fit.
It might be unstrung, as he had his own bow in Nan Dungortheb - which he probably lost/damaged&discarded.
But as Bregor's Bow is a heirloom of his house in future, so he has to have it.
He might leave it in a kind of shelter he makes for himself in Doriath (as he wanders there for months before being taken to Menegroth he has to have made or have found himself some kind of shelter to sleep in. Still, as he does not hunt anymore, he will not be using it anyway, so he probably leaves it at his sleeping place.)
When Beren leaves Doriath for Nargothrond he might have the bow restrung and take it with him to leave it Nargothrond before he leaves with Finrod for former Tol Sirion - where they do intend to dress up as orcs - so such kind of bow would give them away.
From Nargothornd it can be given back to Beren at his wedding by Orodreth/Gil-Galad (propably having undergone some elvish maintenance/repairs/ embelishments), or to Dior ot to any of his descendants at any time we see fit.
Episode 4 is our Doriath bottle episode. Our main storyline will, of course, be the meeting of Beren and Lúthien and the two of them falling in love. A lot of healing has to happen for Beren. Physically, he has to get better. But of course he mentally is not exactly in a joyful place in the beginning. By the end, he is self-confident, won over by Lúthien's playfulness.
Daeron is our B-plot. We will see his reaction to Lúthien's new relationship, and that reaction will be of the "concerned best friend" variety. We will have to have Daeron try to talk to Lúthien first, but when he decides to take the matter to Court, we get the rest of Doriath involved.
We will want to see Thingol before the end of the episode. So, what are Thingol and Melian up to in this episode before Thingol thinks up the Quest?
Daeron is our B-plot. We will see his reaction to Lúthien's new relationship, and that reaction will be of the "concerned best friend" variety. We will have to have Daeron try to talk to Lúthien first, but when he decides to take the matter to Court, we get the rest of Doriath involved.
We will want to see Thingol before the end of the episode. So, what are Thingol and Melian up to in this episode before Thingol thinks up the Quest?
Odola
Well-Known Member
Th[ingo]l visiting refugees building their new talans/flets checking if they are adjusting well? Would be nice to see him gracefully and competentely climbing trees as only a true wood elf can.
Melian of course doing some spindle work with her ladies (singing - and as they are elves- so even possible dancing - included), the dwarvish metal spinning wheel standing unused in the corner of the room.
BTW - proving that a spinning wheel limits mobility and forces women indoors - here the mobility and multitasking allowed by the use of a spindle
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Odola
Well-Known Member
Sorry, Thingol. Will correct it. But still Thranduil is a stand-in for Thingol anyway, so I get them confused sometimes. Sorry.
So, is now corrected above.
But I still want see him climbing trees with the agility as if he were an elvish youngling of 150 or so. "Ageless" is "ageless" - and in his royal robes and looking all regal at the same time.
An elvish woodland king has to be able to pull that of imho.
Why. Nimrodel lived on a flet before Galadriel come to Lorien, and it was Galadriel who brought the mellorn trees there, as far I do remember?
Everything dimishes in ME with time, the trees of the 1st Age habe to be bigger than those of the 3rd?
Those trees are plenty of centuries years old, Doriath existed for millenia already and the elves tend to their trees. Those have to huge and strong?
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Haerangil
Well-Known Member
Sorry, Thingol. Will correct it. But still Thranduil is a stand-in for Thingol anyway, so I get them confused sometimes. Sorry.
So, is now corrected above.
But I still want see him climbing trees with the agility as if he were an elvish youngling of 150 or so. "Ageless" is "ageless" - and in his royal robes and looking all regal at the same time.
An elvish woodland king has to be able to pull that of imho.
Why. Nimrodel lived on a flet before Galadriel come to Lorien, and it was Galadriel who brought the mellorn trees there, as far I do remember?
Everything dimishes in ME with time, the trees of the 1st Age habe to be bigger than those of the 3rd?
Those trees are plenty of centuries years old, Doriath existed for millenia already and the elves tend to their trees. Those have to huge and strong?
Did she? Galadriel already was in Lorien in 2nd Age, even before Amroth arrived i believe?
Anyway we're told Mallorns are the mightiest trees, at last those in lorien for middle-earth by standards, so , no, most likely even 1st Age Doriath had none such giants.If they lived onTelain i suppose they were like the tree-houses we have in dimension.
Odola
Well-Known Member
There are so many versions of that that I've lost track. Still would she have planted mallorns in a "not yet her" forest?
"Are the mightiest trees" now (3 Age) - not necessary "were the mightiest trees in ME ever"?
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Haerangil
Well-Known Member
Depends.It would be a nice welcoming gift for that place after she had left Eregion.Also it would make maybe sense she'd invest into that place after she went there and got her ring.Also it could explain why she was busy and what she did during the wars her husband fought in Eriador at the same time.And why the Galadhrim chose her as their lady and defacto ruler after their royal line had faded.
Do we have any descriptions or mentions of Doriath being home to such exceedingly mighty trees? Or the Doriathrim living in trees? I mean... sure, Luthien was imprisoned in Hirilorn and Nellas lived in the woods, but it always came about to me as if Luthiens situation was very uncommon and quite against the accepted norm, and Nellas was basically a wild child... she probably just slept in the leaves wherever she went...
Odola
Well-Known Member
Do we anything about Doriath beyond the being THE ultimate Sindar elvish forest? Melian lived there, no evil entered there due to the Girdle, the elves lived there for millennia undisturbed. For the trees might not outgrow a mallorn (as those were a Valinorian brand) but still be high enough for flets imho.
Haerangil
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Beeches and oaks are suited for larger tree-houses, birches for very small ones, holly... i don't think at all.Neither of these however talan like dimensions..
Except for cerin amroth maybe, which seems to have been a comparably small talan i could as well imagine within a very large oak or beech.
Except for cerin amroth maybe, which seems to have been a comparably small talan i could as well imagine within a very large oak or beech.
Odola
Well-Known Member
Doubt the refugees build huge tree palaces. Not necessary at all.
Cerin Amroth - at least the version Frodo visited (no tree-house would stand for a thousand years without maintenance and subsequence rebuilding - trees do grow and some of them die - one would need some adjustements at least) - was build on mallorns already. As such the flet that Frodo visited was a post-Galadriel-rule building imho.
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Haerangil
Well-Known Member
It was built on mallorns, but it was quite small.A talan of that size could also work on far smaller trees, that was my point.
I also never said the refugees immediately started to build tree palaces... especially when Mallorns supposedly need a long time to grow to that kind of size, but someday their mallornplanting must have started and Galadriels arrival imho seems like a good starting point when she has the ring.
I also never said the refugees immediately started to build tree palaces... especially when Mallorns supposedly need a long time to grow to that kind of size, but someday their mallornplanting must have started and Galadriels arrival imho seems like a good starting point when she has the ring.
Odola
Well-Known Member
Has Galadriel ever dared to plant mallorns in Doriath?. I thinks she has saved those nuts she has brought over for her own realm - for whenever she would have gained that realm in future. [Or she got them sent to her by the reembodied Finrod before the Fall of Numenor when ships form Tol Eresea still sailed the flat oceans.]
But talain were originally lookout posts and only later became dwellings. They were quite simple constructions at first. So having the refugees build some because they were used to them in the dangers of living outside of Doriath does not imply they build them elaborate as palaces.
But having just visited one might explain how Thingol comes up with the idea of having Luthien imprisoned in a tree - beyond having him to show off his agility when climbing up a tree without losing any of his kingly dignity and gravitas - which I do look forward too.
(Climbing up trees simply does not seem a very kingly behaviour among humans - so it would be a challenge for any actor to pull that one off imho.)