Season 2 Episode 5: Live from MidMoot! (except not live)
- Thread starter MithLuin
- Start date
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
I think that's a good move. Is it bad that I feel weirdly sad that we won't have Cirdan helping out his lost love's descendants through the ages?
Hmmmmm....I mean, the Hosts vetoed him having a gf specifically because they didn't want anyone to confuse his longing for Valinor with his longing for a lost love. So...it's probably good not to go that route.
BUT, at the same time...the people of the Falas (don't say that outloud;we'll call them the Forsaken on screen) are the most closely tied to the Teleri of Alqualondë, and Olwë has been shown to be Círdan's good friend.
So why on earth is Círdan so friendly with the Noldor after he learns that they're responsible for Olwë's death? When Elwë gets the news, he bans them from his lands and bans their language (making an exception for Olwë's descendants in the form of Finarfin's kids Finrod, Galadriel, Aegnor and Angrod [and Orodreth])
Why would Círdan get along so well with Turgon? Why does he agree to raise a young Gil-galad?
There's a story there, certainly.
BUT, at the same time...the people of the Falas (don't say that outloud;we'll call them the Forsaken on screen) are the most closely tied to the Teleri of Alqualondë, and Olwë has been shown to be Círdan's good friend.
So why on earth is Círdan so friendly with the Noldor after he learns that they're responsible for Olwë's death? When Elwë gets the news, he bans them from his lands and bans their language (making an exception for Olwë's descendants in the form of Finarfin's kids Finrod, Galadriel, Aegnor and Angrod [and Orodreth])
Why would Círdan get along so well with Turgon? Why does he agree to raise a young Gil-galad?
There's a story there, certainly.
Outline, Take 2
Protagonist: Círdan
Supporting cast: Olwë, Finwë, Ossë, Uinen
Background: Ingwë, Míriel, Ulmo, Mahtan, Indis, Angband Posse: Gothmog/Balrog Lieutenant/Thuringwethil/Sauron/Drauglin
Episode 5: Shirtless Swimming and other important matters of destiny
1. Teaser: Frame - ??? Who knows? Maybe Elladan and Elrohir show up? We'll worry about this later. *kick the can*
Main - The shores of the Sea - a storm on the coast of Beleriand, as the Teleri make their way down to the coast under the leadership of Olwë and the support of Círdan. Some flee into the woods to hide from the scary storm.
Act 1
2. Círdan and Olwë work to rope their people in and get them to establish a dwelling on the coast.
3. In Valinor, Finwë and the Noldor arrive on the Island Ferry. The Vanyar have set up tents on the Hill of Túna, and the Noldor join them, but begin building *real* structures - stone houses.
4. Ulmo expresses his grave misgivings to this whole Children-in-Valinor development to Ossë and Uinen, and sends them to the coast of Beleriand to set his own backup plan in motion.
Act 2
5. Ossë appears on the shores of Beleriand and meets Olwë. It's a bit disconcerting at first, but they strike up a conversation. Ossë and Uinen teach the Teleri how to survive on the coast - gathering shellfish and the like. Ossë gravitates towards Círdan, and Uinen gravitates towards Olwë.
6. Angband: Balrogs have gone elf-hunting, and are picking off some of the Teleri who fled into the woods in the opening scene. Some run away across a river, and the balrogs move to pursue. Uinen rises up out of the river, and we get to see what a wet balrog looks like. Balrogs make a strategic retreat and return to Angband. We see Thuringwethil watching. Beleg, Mablung and Celeborn are also in the woods looking for Elwë.
7. Midpoint Back in Valinor, the city of Tírion is built. Finwë is getting impatient waiting for the Island Ferry to return for the Teleri. The Vanyar are getting impatient with the Noldor and all their industrious work strewing gems everywhere. Míriel and Indis have a conversation about maintaining the peace between their peoples.
8. Olwë and Círdan have dreams sent by Ulmo that spell out their DESTINY. Olwë's dream has swans in it. Círdan's has Vingelot.
Act 3
9. Olwë discusses his dream with someone - his wife? Círdan is a bit quiet about his, not sure what it means.
10. The Noldor and Vanyar together build the Tower of Ingwë in Tírion. Mahtan plays a key role in the construction. The Calacirya is made? [If it's not there yet, it's made now.]
11. Midpoint Angband update: Sauron in his mad-scientist workshop, tinkering on proto-werewolves. Thuringwethil comes in to check on him. He asks her what the balrogs are up to, and if they know about his project yet. She confirms that they're still in the dark.
12. The Island Ferry Returns! Ossë has brought it back at the request of Finwë (and the Valar).
Act 4
13. The Teleri begin packing their stuff and preparing for departure. Círdan is helping to organize this work but gets more and more unhappy about it. Conversation between Olwë and Círdan in Círdan's tent while he is packing a trunk of supplies.
14. The Vanyar and the Noldor decide, you know what, we'll always be friends, but we're terrible roommates. Ingwë moves with some of the Vanyar to Valmar to be closer to the Valar, who seem to respect the....simpler...lifestyle of the Vanyar. [Does Indis go with him?]
15. Climax: Círdan goes for a swim to work out his thoughts. It's a silent scene, but involves beautiful coastal ocean scenery and poignant music. As the Teleri are boarding the Island, Círdan informs Olwë that he will be staying behind. Olwë at first panics in a 'But I need you!' way, but he has become more of a leader than he was 2 episodes ago. Círdan explains that all of the Teleri strung out across Middle Earth behind them will someday want to go to Valinor, too, so he will stay to wait for them. He expresses confidence in Olwë as a leader. Olwë gets on the Island to depart.
16. Denouement:
Main - Círdan, standing on a promontory, watching the Island Ferry depart (the Forsaken). Finwë, standing in the Tower of Ingwë, looking for the Teleri to see if they are coming yet. Olwë, on the Island Ferry.
Frame - ??? I dunno, conversations about, ummm, maybe destiny, the inevitability of fate?
Protagonist: Círdan
Supporting cast: Olwë, Finwë, Ossë, Uinen
Background: Ingwë, Míriel, Ulmo, Mahtan, Indis, Angband Posse: Gothmog/Balrog Lieutenant/Thuringwethil/Sauron/Drauglin
Episode 5: Shirtless Swimming and other important matters of destiny
1. Teaser: Frame - ??? Who knows? Maybe Elladan and Elrohir show up? We'll worry about this later. *kick the can*
Main - The shores of the Sea - a storm on the coast of Beleriand, as the Teleri make their way down to the coast under the leadership of Olwë and the support of Círdan. Some flee into the woods to hide from the scary storm.
Act 1
2. Círdan and Olwë work to rope their people in and get them to establish a dwelling on the coast.
3. In Valinor, Finwë and the Noldor arrive on the Island Ferry. The Vanyar have set up tents on the Hill of Túna, and the Noldor join them, but begin building *real* structures - stone houses.
4. Ulmo expresses his grave misgivings to this whole Children-in-Valinor development to Ossë and Uinen, and sends them to the coast of Beleriand to set his own backup plan in motion.
Act 2
5. Ossë appears on the shores of Beleriand and meets Olwë. It's a bit disconcerting at first, but they strike up a conversation. Ossë and Uinen teach the Teleri how to survive on the coast - gathering shellfish and the like. Ossë gravitates towards Círdan, and Uinen gravitates towards Olwë.
6. Angband: Balrogs have gone elf-hunting, and are picking off some of the Teleri who fled into the woods in the opening scene. Some run away across a river, and the balrogs move to pursue. Uinen rises up out of the river, and we get to see what a wet balrog looks like. Balrogs make a strategic retreat and return to Angband. We see Thuringwethil watching. Beleg, Mablung and Celeborn are also in the woods looking for Elwë.
7. Midpoint Back in Valinor, the city of Tírion is built. Finwë is getting impatient waiting for the Island Ferry to return for the Teleri. The Vanyar are getting impatient with the Noldor and all their industrious work strewing gems everywhere. Míriel and Indis have a conversation about maintaining the peace between their peoples.
8. Olwë and Círdan have dreams sent by Ulmo that spell out their DESTINY. Olwë's dream has swans in it. Círdan's has Vingelot.
Act 3
9. Olwë discusses his dream with someone - his wife? Círdan is a bit quiet about his, not sure what it means.
10. The Noldor and Vanyar together build the Tower of Ingwë in Tírion. Mahtan plays a key role in the construction. The Calacirya is made? [If it's not there yet, it's made now.]
11. Midpoint Angband update: Sauron in his mad-scientist workshop, tinkering on proto-werewolves. Thuringwethil comes in to check on him. He asks her what the balrogs are up to, and if they know about his project yet. She confirms that they're still in the dark.
12. The Island Ferry Returns! Ossë has brought it back at the request of Finwë (and the Valar).
Act 4
13. The Teleri begin packing their stuff and preparing for departure. Círdan is helping to organize this work but gets more and more unhappy about it. Conversation between Olwë and Círdan in Círdan's tent while he is packing a trunk of supplies.
14. The Vanyar and the Noldor decide, you know what, we'll always be friends, but we're terrible roommates. Ingwë moves with some of the Vanyar to Valmar to be closer to the Valar, who seem to respect the....simpler...lifestyle of the Vanyar. [Does Indis go with him?]
15. Climax: Círdan goes for a swim to work out his thoughts. It's a silent scene, but involves beautiful coastal ocean scenery and poignant music. As the Teleri are boarding the Island, Círdan informs Olwë that he will be staying behind. Olwë at first panics in a 'But I need you!' way, but he has become more of a leader than he was 2 episodes ago. Círdan explains that all of the Teleri strung out across Middle Earth behind them will someday want to go to Valinor, too, so he will stay to wait for them. He expresses confidence in Olwë as a leader. Olwë gets on the Island to depart.
16. Denouement:
Main - Círdan, standing on a promontory, watching the Island Ferry depart (the Forsaken). Finwë, standing in the Tower of Ingwë, looking for the Teleri to see if they are coming yet. Olwë, on the Island Ferry.
Frame - ??? I dunno, conversations about, ummm, maybe destiny, the inevitability of fate?
Last edited:
ouzaru
Well-Known Member
I think the problem I'm having is that Cirdan hasn't really come up before this? I feel like I'm not sure how he felt about everything until his dream, which then kind of flattens the impact of the dream. Which is probably more me not paying attention to the existing outlines than any actual lack of pathos in them. Gotta go back and lock over everything again. Looking forward to seeing you guys next week.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
That may be part of the problem since he had a fairly substantial role in episode 4, and has been present since episode 1.
We gave him a line in Episode 3, which is I think his first real 'introduction' - I chose him to voice one of the more big picture, cut to the heart of the debate issues, to give him credence as a character who is prone to wisdom 😉.
In Episode 4, he is Olwë's right-hand-man after Elwë leaves, and thus helps Olwë to grow into the role of leader of his people. Since Olwë is the protagonist of that episode, I think that Círdan has a significant, if secondary, role. This Episode (5) is really our chance to get to know Círdan. If we've failed there, we should revise the outline.
In Episode 4, he is Olwë's right-hand-man after Elwë leaves, and thus helps Olwë to grow into the role of leader of his people. Since Olwë is the protagonist of that episode, I think that Círdan has a significant, if secondary, role. This Episode (5) is really our chance to get to know Círdan. If we've failed there, we should revise the outline.
I would say it depends on the way we give Círdan focus. He's the protagonist and the viewers should really feel that. I mean, such a thing as the length of his scenes is important. We need to give him time in this episode. The bad guys should be secondary - let's give them short scenes. The Valinor stuff is secondary - let's make those scenes short as well. In contrast, perhaps we could flesh out the scenes in Middle-earth a bit, giving the viewers time with Círdan.
I think Círdan has been given focus earlier, it't not like he's turned up out of nowhere for this episode.
I think Círdan has been given focus earlier, it't not like he's turned up out of nowhere for this episode.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
The scene with the Balrogs would certainly be short. Two minutes at most.
The scene where Sauron constructs a werewolf would need to be longer. Remember, we have about one more episode with him before the shift to Valinor.
The scene would be no longer than ten minutes. Don't worry, Cirdan will have his share of screen time.
The scene where Sauron constructs a werewolf would need to be longer. Remember, we have about one more episode with him before the shift to Valinor.
The scene would be no longer than ten minutes. Don't worry, Cirdan will have his share of screen time.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
We could potentially use that to illustrate that there is no way they can use it again.
Outline, Take 3: Now with Mahtan, Indis and Ingwë's wife as minor characters who appear!
Protagonist: Círdan
Supporting cast: Olwë, Finwë, Ossë, Uinen
Background: Ingwë, Míriel, Ulmo, Mahtan, Indis, Ingwë's wife [Iminyë?] Angband Posse: Gothmog/Balrog Lieutenant/Thuringwethil/Sauron/Drauglin
Episode 5: Shirtless Swimming and other important matters of destiny
1. Teaser: Frame - ??? Who knows? Maybe Elladan and Elrohir show up? We'll worry about this later. *kick the can*
Main - The shores of the Sea - a storm on the coast of Beleriand, as the Teleri make their way down to the coast under the leadership of Olwë and the support of Círdan. Some flee into the woods to hide from the scary storm.
Act 1
2. Círdan and Olwë work to rope their people in and get them to establish a dwelling on the coast.
3. In Valinor, the Vanyar and the Noldor arrive on the Island Ferry. The Vanyar set up tents on the Hill of Túna, and the Noldor begin building *real* structures - stone houses.
4. Ulmo expresses his grave misgivings to this whole Children-in-Valinor development to Ossë and Uinen, and sends them to the coast of Beleriand to set his own backup plan in motion. A reminder that Ossë is not allowed to approach the shores of Valinor after his destructive rebellion in Season 1.
Act 2
5. Ossë appears on the shores of Beleriand and meets Olwë. It's a bit disconcerting at first, but they strike up a conversation. Ossë and Uinen teach the Teleri how to survive on the coast - gathering shellfish and the like. Ossë gravitates towards Círdan, and Uinen gravitates towards Olwë.
6. Angband: Balrogs have gone elf-hunting, and are picking off some of the Teleri who fled into the woods in the opening scene. Some run away across a river, and the balrogs move to pursue. Uinen rises up out of the river, and we get to see what a wet balrog looks like. Balrogs make a strategic retreat and return to Angband. We see Thuringwethil watching. Beleg, Mablung and Celeborn are also in the woods looking for Elwë.
7. Midpoint Back in Valinor, the city of Tírion is built. Finwë is getting impatient waiting for the Island Ferry to return for the Teleri. The Vanyar are getting impatient with the Noldor and all their industrious work strewing gems everywhere. Míriel and Indis have a conversation about maintaining the peace between their peoples.
8. Olwë and Círdan have dreams sent by Ulmo that spell out their DESTINY. Olwë's dream has swans in it. Círdan's has Vingelot.
Act 3
9. Olwë discusses his dream with someone - his wife? Uinen? Círdan is a bit quiet about his, not sure what it means.
10. The Noldor and Vanyar together build the Tower of Ingwë in Tírion. Mahtan plays a key role in the construction. The Calacirya is made? [If it's not there yet, it's made now.]
11. Midpoint Angband update: Sauron in his mad-scientist workshop, tinkering on proto-werewolves. Thuringwethil comes in to check on him. He asks her what the balrogs are up to, and if they know about his project yet. She confirms that they're still in the dark.
12. The Island Ferry Returns! Ossë has brought it back at the request of Finwë (and the Valar).
Act 4
13. The Teleri begin packing their stuff and preparing for departure. Círdan is helping to organize this work but gets more and more unhappy about it. Conversation between Olwë and Círdan in Círdan's tent while he is packing a trunk of supplies.
14. The Vanyar and the Noldor decide, you know what, we'll always be friends, but we're terrible roommates. Ingwë moves with some of the Vanyar to Valmar to be closer to the Valar, who seem to respect the....simpler...lifestyle of the Vanyar. [Does Indis go with him?] It is revealed that Ingwë's dead wife has returned from Mandos, and she is with him in Valmar.
15. Climax: Círdan goes for a swim to work out his thoughts. It's a silent scene, but involves beautiful coastal ocean scenery and poignant music. As the Teleri are boarding the Island, Círdan informs Olwë that he will be staying behind. Olwë at first panics in a 'But I need you!' way, but he has become more of a leader than he was 2 episodes ago. Círdan explains that all of the Teleri strung out across Middle Earth behind them will someday want to go to Valinor, too, so he will stay to wait for them. He expresses confidence in Olwë as a leader. Olwë gets on the Island to depart.
16. Denouement:
Main - Círdan, standing on a promontory, watching the Island Ferry depart (the Forsaken). When the Island leaves, a part breaks off and remains in the bay (the Isle of Balar). Finwë, standing in the Tower of Ingwë, looking for the Teleri to see if they are coming yet. Olwë, on the Island Ferry, losing sight of Middle Earth, but still having Ossë and Uinen with him.
Frame - ??? I dunno, conversations about, ummm, maybe destiny, the inevitability of fate?
Protagonist: Círdan
Supporting cast: Olwë, Finwë, Ossë, Uinen
Background: Ingwë, Míriel, Ulmo, Mahtan, Indis, Ingwë's wife [Iminyë?] Angband Posse: Gothmog/Balrog Lieutenant/Thuringwethil/Sauron/Drauglin
Episode 5: Shirtless Swimming and other important matters of destiny
1. Teaser: Frame - ??? Who knows? Maybe Elladan and Elrohir show up? We'll worry about this later. *kick the can*
Main - The shores of the Sea - a storm on the coast of Beleriand, as the Teleri make their way down to the coast under the leadership of Olwë and the support of Círdan. Some flee into the woods to hide from the scary storm.
Act 1
2. Círdan and Olwë work to rope their people in and get them to establish a dwelling on the coast.
3. In Valinor, the Vanyar and the Noldor arrive on the Island Ferry. The Vanyar set up tents on the Hill of Túna, and the Noldor begin building *real* structures - stone houses.
4. Ulmo expresses his grave misgivings to this whole Children-in-Valinor development to Ossë and Uinen, and sends them to the coast of Beleriand to set his own backup plan in motion. A reminder that Ossë is not allowed to approach the shores of Valinor after his destructive rebellion in Season 1.
Act 2
5. Ossë appears on the shores of Beleriand and meets Olwë. It's a bit disconcerting at first, but they strike up a conversation. Ossë and Uinen teach the Teleri how to survive on the coast - gathering shellfish and the like. Ossë gravitates towards Círdan, and Uinen gravitates towards Olwë.
6. Angband: Balrogs have gone elf-hunting, and are picking off some of the Teleri who fled into the woods in the opening scene. Some run away across a river, and the balrogs move to pursue. Uinen rises up out of the river, and we get to see what a wet balrog looks like. Balrogs make a strategic retreat and return to Angband. We see Thuringwethil watching. Beleg, Mablung and Celeborn are also in the woods looking for Elwë.
7. Midpoint Back in Valinor, the city of Tírion is built. Finwë is getting impatient waiting for the Island Ferry to return for the Teleri. The Vanyar are getting impatient with the Noldor and all their industrious work strewing gems everywhere. Míriel and Indis have a conversation about maintaining the peace between their peoples.
8. Olwë and Círdan have dreams sent by Ulmo that spell out their DESTINY. Olwë's dream has swans in it. Círdan's has Vingelot.
Act 3
9. Olwë discusses his dream with someone - his wife? Uinen? Círdan is a bit quiet about his, not sure what it means.
10. The Noldor and Vanyar together build the Tower of Ingwë in Tírion. Mahtan plays a key role in the construction. The Calacirya is made? [If it's not there yet, it's made now.]
11. Midpoint Angband update: Sauron in his mad-scientist workshop, tinkering on proto-werewolves. Thuringwethil comes in to check on him. He asks her what the balrogs are up to, and if they know about his project yet. She confirms that they're still in the dark.
12. The Island Ferry Returns! Ossë has brought it back at the request of Finwë (and the Valar).
Act 4
13. The Teleri begin packing their stuff and preparing for departure. Círdan is helping to organize this work but gets more and more unhappy about it. Conversation between Olwë and Círdan in Círdan's tent while he is packing a trunk of supplies.
14. The Vanyar and the Noldor decide, you know what, we'll always be friends, but we're terrible roommates. Ingwë moves with some of the Vanyar to Valmar to be closer to the Valar, who seem to respect the....simpler...lifestyle of the Vanyar. [Does Indis go with him?] It is revealed that Ingwë's dead wife has returned from Mandos, and she is with him in Valmar.
15. Climax: Círdan goes for a swim to work out his thoughts. It's a silent scene, but involves beautiful coastal ocean scenery and poignant music. As the Teleri are boarding the Island, Círdan informs Olwë that he will be staying behind. Olwë at first panics in a 'But I need you!' way, but he has become more of a leader than he was 2 episodes ago. Círdan explains that all of the Teleri strung out across Middle Earth behind them will someday want to go to Valinor, too, so he will stay to wait for them. He expresses confidence in Olwë as a leader. Olwë gets on the Island to depart.
16. Denouement:
Main - Círdan, standing on a promontory, watching the Island Ferry depart (the Forsaken). When the Island leaves, a part breaks off and remains in the bay (the Isle of Balar). Finwë, standing in the Tower of Ingwë, looking for the Teleri to see if they are coming yet. Olwë, on the Island Ferry, losing sight of Middle Earth, but still having Ossë and Uinen with him.
Frame - ??? I dunno, conversations about, ummm, maybe destiny, the inevitability of fate?
