Session 4.14 - Episodes 3 & 4

amysrevenge

amysrevenge

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Ange1e4e5 said:
What group should Sauron pick from to disguise himself? Noldor or Sindar? As to teasing his involvement, maybe have the "camera" focus on an an Elf or two at a time, and as the Mereth Aderthad ends, we see that it's Sauron (maybe Thuringwethil if Sauron wishes to masquerade as a couple).
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I remember ages ago during S4 pre-planning imagining him playing both sides, and the audience-reveal that it's Sauron is showing him flowing from one disguise to the other. Most likely using the same "Elf", swapping outfits - whether it's the Sauron actor in different makeup, or a different actor, I could see both - but I prefer it to be the Sauron actor.
 
Haakon

Haakon

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I suggest that we have Angrod come to the Fëanoreans at the end of e3. They settle in e4, and then we can focus more on Eöl. If we put Angrod vs Caranthir in e4, it will leave less time for settling and Eöl. e3 is more Doriath centered, with a look at Galadriel.
E4 risks being boring (B and its realms) but I think that Eöl will spice it up a bit. If we also get the Houseless Dwarves in E4, we have some good stuff.
For the Fëanorean part of E4, I'd like to focus on Celebrimbor, who could visit one or two Feanorean sites and learn something about their strategic importance (and other things), and by doing so also informing the viewers.
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

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Okay, here is what I have as potential events to happen in Episode 3 ('An Uneasy Unity'):

¤Fingolfin wears a crown​
¤Angrod and Celeborn go to Doriath​
¤Noldor explore Beleriand and claim their realms​
¤Beginning of Caranthir/Angrod feud​
¤Celeborn and Galadriel meet (again)​
¤Círdan rebuilds the Havens​
¤Maedhros learns to do some things one-handed (horseback riding, sword fighting, etc)​
¤Fëanoreans leave Mithrim​

And potential events for Episode 4 ('Of Beleriand and its Realms'):

¤Noldor build a lot of Towers (Barad Eithel, Himring, Tol Sirion)​
¤Eöl dislikes his new Fëanorean neighbors (tale told in flashback)​
¤Celebrimbor travels East Beleriand​
¤Meet the Houseless Dwarves?​
¤Thuringwethil spies on the Noldor in their new realms​
¤Sindar move into Nevrast, Mithrim, and Dorthonion​
¤Ecthelion rescues some Sindar from werewolves in Nevrast​
¤Fingolfin plans Mereth Aderthad​
¤Sauron learns of the plans for the Mereth Aderthad​


Any other events I should include on these lists?


Also, any suggestions for themes or stories to be telling in these episodes? Keep in mind that this show isn't the documentary of the history of the Elves - we have to be telling a story as we go!
 
Ange1e4e5

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
MithLuin said:
Okay, here is what I have as potential events to happen in Episode 3 ('An Uneasy Unity'):

¤Fingolfin wears a crown​
¤Angrod and Celeborn go to Doriath​
¤Noldor explore Beleriand and claim their realms​
¤Beginning of Caranthir/Angrod feud​
¤Celeborn and Galadriel meet (again)​
¤Círdan rebuilds the Havens​
¤Maedhros learns to do some things one-handed (horseback riding, sword fighting, etc)​
¤Fëanoreans leave Mithrim​

And potential events for Episode 4 ('Of Beleriand and its Realms'):

¤Noldor build a lot of Towers (Barad Eithel, Himring, Tol Sirion)​
¤Eöl dislikes his new Fëanorean neighbors (tale told in flashback)​
¤Celebrimbor travels East Beleriand​
¤Meet the Houseless Dwarves?​
¤Thuringwethil spies on the Noldor in their new realms​
¤Sindar move into Nevrast, Mithrim, and Dorthonion​
¤Ecthelion rescues some Sindar from werewolves in Nevrast​
¤Fingolfin plans Mereth Aderthad​
¤Sauron learns of the plans for the Mereth Aderthad​


Any other events I should include on these lists?


Also, any suggestions for themes or stories to be telling in these episodes? Keep in mind that this show isn't the documentary of the history of the Elves - we have to be telling a story as we go!
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Theme: Building? The Noldor are making their settlements and trying to build good relationships with the Sindar, going different ways with this (or in Caranthir's case not wanting to have a relationship with the Sindar and vice versa with Eol).
 
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F

Faelivrin

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I hope posting this late doesn't make it impossible to use/consider my suggested additions during the scripting. I didn't get around to posting before. (I tried to remove repeats of what Marie already listed. I may have missed a few -- sorry.)


Episode 3 (if they don't occur in Episode 2)
11. Finrod sends Angrod to Doriath as an ambassador, but cautions him to speak as little of the Fëanoreans as possible.
12. Angrod tells Thingol a very whitewashed version of the Darkening of Valinor. He doesn't mention the Silmarils, rebellion, Kinslaying, or succession crisis. Finwë and/or Olwë's deaths may come out. (may be off-screen)
13. Thingol is less than satisfied with this tale. He allows the Noldor to settle the north, but declares Doriath off-limits. (may be off-screen)
14. Scouting of Beleriand (although, the Noldor should have been shown doing this starting in Episode 1)

Episode 3
1. The Noldor hold council, where Angrod conveys Thingol's decree about where they can settle. Fëanorians insult Angrod and Thingol. This council also no doubt involves other discussions -- how they will, as a united group, handle relations with the Falathrim and Laegelrim, for example.
2. Fingolfin is crowned in a pompous ceremony. (the pompousness showcases his pride)
3. The three houses decide where they will settle. Maedhros suggests (privately!) getting his House as far as possible away from the other 2, regardless of the risk of the less-defended land they'll occupy, but promises to return periodically for council and to coordinate with the other House leaders.

Episode 4
1. The Noldor settle realms, including Minas Tirith.
2. Amras initially lives in Himring, judging/annoying his brothers. He repeatedly reminds them that they're doomed because of the Oath, complains about his brother being dead at their hands, etc. Everybody wishes he would go away (he'll go away to Amon Ereb in a later episode).
3. Eol is very unhappy with his new neighbors. "Flashbacks"/exposition of how he came to and purchased Nan Elmoth. He had to pay for Nan Elmoth, but these jerks just showed up and seized land -- more than he has! Eol and the Feanorians are equally rude to each other.
4. Many Falathrim move north to Nevrast and Mithrim (and Dorthonion?). Annael and many others go to Mithrim. Turgon is especially welcoming. (although Marie already mentioned this event, I want to express that we absolutely must include Mithrim, even if Corey strongly wants to leave out the Mithrim-dwelling Sindar. We can't tell Annael or Tuor's story if Annael is the only Sinda in all of Mithrim, or doesn't move there until after his capture and escape)
5. We can show the Maia who will be Glaurung in Angband. There is likely to be some jockying for position while Morgoth is out, some scheming among the greater Demons. Perhaps pre-Glaurung is dissatisfied that he isn't mighty enough to claim the place he thinks he deserves, so he later volunteers to become a Dragon, accepting Morgoth's promise that it'll make him more powerful.
6. Time-skip before Fingolfin starts planning Mereth Aderthad.
 
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MithLuin

MithLuin

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Episode 3 will have Celeborn as a protagonist. He will be interacting with the Noldor in Mithrim, Círdan, and returning to Doriath to confer with Thingol (where he sees Galadriel again).

Episode 4 will be told from the point of view of Thuringwethil spying on the Noldor in Beleriand (so, no Doriath)
She will be moving West to East
I had some technical difficulties and missed parts of this, but I think this was the gist of it:

Nevrast - Turgon
Tol Sirion - Finrod and Círdan discuss Shipburning
Dorthonion (staying away from Crissagrim) - Aegnor trying to talk Angrod down
Barad Eithel (from a distance only)
Fëanoreans last - Fingon (or Fingolfin?) inviting Maedhros to Mereth Aderthad and discussing long term plans
 
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Faelivrin

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Will some scenes be from other povs, like secondary protagonists? I don’t think it would work to show an all-Noldo council from the pov of Celeborn, who isn’t there. Or the part where Fingolfin or Finrod secretly warns Angrod what not to reveal.

Will we be allowed to include the Mithrim-Sindar, or Angrod bringing Thingol’s message to the Noldor before they settle outside Mithrim?
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

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Yes, there will be other points of view in other plot lines; Celeborn is just the main focus point-of-view character for the episode. Thuringwethil's spying mission is what ties Episode 4 together, so I imagine she will be present (but unobserved) in all of the scenes.

Angrod going to Doriath, talking to Thingol, returning to Mithrim, delivering his message to the Council, and getting yelled at by Caranthir is all part of Episode 3. Celeborn will be in Mithrim during the Council; he will return to Doriath afterwards.

There are not currently any Sindar living in Mithrim when Thingol sends his message to the Noldor, no, except for the small contingent with Celeborn and Círdan.
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

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Curufin gets Angrist in Episode 6.

We can maybe have a reason to show Telchar in Episode 4. Now that we are using Thuringwethil to provide the viewpoint, we don't need the dwarves to meet the Noldor to show that the dwarves are there.
 
Ange1e4e5

Ange1e4e5

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MithLuin said:
Curufin gets Angrist in Episode 6.

We can maybe have a reason to show Telchar in Episode 4. Now that we are using Thuringwethil to provide the viewpoint, we don't need the dwarves to meet the Noldor to show that the dwarves are there.
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What reason would we have to show Telchar?
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

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Part of the point of the episode is to convey geography. Showing that the dwarves are near the Fëanoreans will make the Episode 6 meeting anticipated. It's not strictly required, of course, but we could.
 
F

Faelivrin

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MithLuin said:
There are not currently any Sindar living in Mithrim when Thingol sends his message to the Noldor, no, except for the small contingent with Celeborn and Círdan.
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Right... actually I wasn't asking that. I meant to ask, will we be allowed to show a community of Sindar (including Annael) immigrating into Mithrim and settling there, before Annael is captured? Will we be allowed to have that community... exist?
 
Ange1e4e5

Ange1e4e5

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Faelivrin said:
Right... actually I wasn't asking that. I meant to ask, will we be allowed to show a community of Sindar (including Annael) immigrating into Mithrim and settling there, before Annael is captured? Will we be allowed to have that community... exist?
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It should, since some of the Sindar in northern Beleriand join Turgon in Gondolin.
 
Nicholas Palazzo

Nicholas Palazzo

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Faelivrin said:
Right... actually I wasn't asking that. I meant to ask, will we be allowed to show a community of Sindar (including Annael) immigrating into Mithrim and settling there, before Annael is captured? Will we be allowed to have that community... exist?
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Yeah, this has been the case for a while.
 
MithLuin

MithLuin

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The mention of the Sindar in Mithrim during episode 3 occurred at the 44:45 minute mark. To listen to what was said, go here:
Corey Olsen reiterated that he is committed to having no Sindar in Mithrim prior to the arrival of the Noldor. They did not displace an existing community.

Sindar in Mithrim was an item on the list of possible topics for Episode 4. That discussion begins at the 1:34:00 mark.
IIRC, the Sindar in Nevrast were discussed in Episode 4, but I don't remember the Sindar in Mithrim coming up really.


This season is about the reconciliation of the Sindar and Noldor. Part of that reconciliation means...living together. Sindar moving to Mithrim is thus part of the Season 4 storyline. It is up to us to work out the how/when/where/why that happens and integrate it into the larger story, but it's a question of how to do that, not whether or not we're doing that. We are doing that.

We aren't doing it in Episode 3, though. It seems a bit more organic to have the Sindar move in after the Fëanoreans leave. Círdan needs to deal with the 'rebuilding the Havens' plotline in Episodes 3-4, and during the course of that it should be clear that some of the Falathrim are willing to leave the coast and live in the new realms. Episodes 4-6 have the Sindar as a whole interacting with the Noldor more - obviously the Feast, but also moving to Nevrast, Dorthonion, and Mithrim.
 
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