Session 5-08: Storylines of Men - Andreth and Barahir
- Thread starter MithLuin
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Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
The question is the second part of the statement: would it work from a pacing standpoint; that is, would Andreth want a stopover in Brethil if she wants to get to Dorthonion as quickly as possible?
Alcarlótë
Active Member
Did we ever establish that they are in a particular hurry? I can't remember anyone bringing up why that would be the case. And in terms of the pacing of the show, I don't see an issue either - it's actually nice to have some interactions between the different peoples of Men and get back to Haleth before she dies (Men really are like mayflies at this point...), and it's in a point in the show without much tension or danger - the tension has been resolved with the actual move out of Nargothrond.
Why not? I don't see any problem with that. Andreth does not have a 'get there as quickly as possible' goal, nor any pressing deadline for reaching her destination. She's traveling with children and elderly folks and people who have never travelled much before. They are bringing all of their household goods with them. SLOW is almost definitely going to be the best way to describe the journey, though no doubt with good planning and leadership it goes well.
I do not think that the entire House of Bëor need stop in Brethil, no, though certainly a friendly waypoint on the journey would be welcome. We would definitely want the House of Bëor to know where Brethil is, since they are going to flee there after the Dagor Braggolach, but we needn't emphasize the meeting of those two peoples if we don't want to.
For the scene that Dave envisioned, we do not require a meeting of the People of Bëor with the People of Haleth...what we need is a meeting between Andreth (young) and Haleth (old). Certainly, one way that could come about is during the migration. But there are other possibilities. For instance, as young Andreth is formulating the solution to the unrest of her people, she is eventually going to land on the idea of living separate from the Elves, rather than with them in Nargothrond. When she does bring that to Finrod, he isn't going to react well...but it's not like he doesn't know he has a community of Men living independently in a forest to their north. The Haladin are their neighbors. He may recommend the visit, so that she can see what a community of Men looks like in reality, rather than a hypothetical. In other words, Andreth could visit Haleth as part of the preliminary planning stages of her journey to Ladros, rather than during the journey itself. The visit to Brethil could be part of the 'Why Dorthonion?' decision. Brethil is also an isolated, protected place, and if the goal is to be independent and join the war, they certainly aren't going to want to hang out in Brethil. And a visit should make it very clear that while the Haladin may be friendly and hospitable, they're closed off enough to outsiders that they certainly aren't going to invite the House of Bëor to live with them. They'll have to find their own place.
I do not see any challenge - timeline, pacing, or otherwise - with the idea that a young Andreth spends screentime visiting with an older Haleth.
I do not think that the entire House of Bëor need stop in Brethil, no, though certainly a friendly waypoint on the journey would be welcome. We would definitely want the House of Bëor to know where Brethil is, since they are going to flee there after the Dagor Braggolach, but we needn't emphasize the meeting of those two peoples if we don't want to.
For the scene that Dave envisioned, we do not require a meeting of the People of Bëor with the People of Haleth...what we need is a meeting between Andreth (young) and Haleth (old). Certainly, one way that could come about is during the migration. But there are other possibilities. For instance, as young Andreth is formulating the solution to the unrest of her people, she is eventually going to land on the idea of living separate from the Elves, rather than with them in Nargothrond. When she does bring that to Finrod, he isn't going to react well...but it's not like he doesn't know he has a community of Men living independently in a forest to their north. The Haladin are their neighbors. He may recommend the visit, so that she can see what a community of Men looks like in reality, rather than a hypothetical. In other words, Andreth could visit Haleth as part of the preliminary planning stages of her journey to Ladros, rather than during the journey itself. The visit to Brethil could be part of the 'Why Dorthonion?' decision. Brethil is also an isolated, protected place, and if the goal is to be independent and join the war, they certainly aren't going to want to hang out in Brethil. And a visit should make it very clear that while the Haladin may be friendly and hospitable, they're closed off enough to outsiders that they certainly aren't going to invite the House of Bëor to live with them. They'll have to find their own place.
I do not see any challenge - timeline, pacing, or otherwise - with the idea that a young Andreth spends screentime visiting with an older Haleth.
Alcarlótë
Active Member
That's a fun idea! Hador might be in or near Minas Tirith visiting Orodreth or on patrol (Finrod took most people with him to Nargothrond when he left Orodreth in charge of Minas Tirith, so the Pass of Sirion might well have been a bit understaffed with guards beyond Tol Sirion itself) when the Beorians come through. But of course it's always possible to arrange Hador meeting with Aegnor while Andreth is also with him after the Beorians have moved in, or Hador just visiting the Beorians to check out (or help them with training? The sheltered Men from Nargothrond would look pretty pathetic to a born soldier like him) their new mannish neighbors beyond the mountains - the First and Third House of Edain were related, at least language-wise.
Yes, part of the story of the Season is that the Houses of Men start off in isolation, each doing their own thing independently, but that they have greater interactions as time goes on. So, a connection shown through each house with each of the others during Andreth's lifetime will be good. House of Hador/House of Haleth could be the double wedding, House of Haleth/House of Bëor can be focused on the journey, and House of Hador/House of Bëor can focus on training for the war with Morgoth. We'll hit a different flavor or theme with each interaction, but it will help deepen the story. I like it!
Zephen12
Member
Quick thought, might have missed it earlier in the comments. I was wondering if we have a clear excuse as to why Andreth wouldn't marry a man after Aegnor.
Being bitter and heartbroken works, but it would seem odd from the perspective of the other humans (she wasn't with anybody as far as they know, so why would she be heartbroken?). In the live episode, Prof said that the people would consider her an "establishment" who would be above falling in love with others. Though I agree with that, that doesn't stop others from falling for her.
This isn't a groundbreaking suggestion, but could we have a moment in which Andreth turns down a human male (likely because she now recognizes that she wants Aegnor)? I'd envision a scene that starts with said dude leaving Andreth's presence with a sad smile (no dialogue), and another person (woman?) enters in immediately and asks Andreth what that was about, and she can briefly respond. In just a few seconds of screen time, we could establish (1) a reason why human men don't approach Andreth (she refuses them), (2) Andreth's budding awareness of her own love of Aegnor, and maybe (3) a verbal statement of the establishment thing ("yes, I'm surprised he tried, given that you are somewhat above all that").
Being bitter and heartbroken works, but it would seem odd from the perspective of the other humans (she wasn't with anybody as far as they know, so why would she be heartbroken?). In the live episode, Prof said that the people would consider her an "establishment" who would be above falling in love with others. Though I agree with that, that doesn't stop others from falling for her.
This isn't a groundbreaking suggestion, but could we have a moment in which Andreth turns down a human male (likely because she now recognizes that she wants Aegnor)? I'd envision a scene that starts with said dude leaving Andreth's presence with a sad smile (no dialogue), and another person (woman?) enters in immediately and asks Andreth what that was about, and she can briefly respond. In just a few seconds of screen time, we could establish (1) a reason why human men don't approach Andreth (she refuses them), (2) Andreth's budding awareness of her own love of Aegnor, and maybe (3) a verbal statement of the establishment thing ("yes, I'm surprised he tried, given that you are somewhat above all that").
Alcarlótë
Active Member
It's just a minor scene, but I like it! 🙂 A great idea to maybe incorporate in the detailed script discussions we'll have in some months.