Session 6-04: Villains

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I don’t think Sauron cares about the distance of Finrod or if he stays away or not. He is full of hubris, so he might even want to lure Finrod to come by killing off his friends.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I don’t think Sauron cares about the distance of Finrod or if he stays away or not. He is full of hubris, so he might even want to lure Finrod to come by killing off his friends.
No wait: perhaps he does care about Finrod and does want Finrod to come. He perceives Finrod’s role as Master of the Isle, and wants him dead. He attacks his human friends to attract Finrod’s attention. This makes Finrod’s arrival later interesting since Sauron will feel his plan has worked.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
I don’t think Sauron cares about the distance of Finrod or if he stays away or not. He is full of hubris, so he might even want to lure Finrod to come by killing off his friends.
But Sauron is focussed on his tub of evil now. Finrod can wait untill he has figured that out. So can Morgoth with his Doriath plan. And this human gives him the time he needs, when he does on his own, Sauron will be ready to reenter the game with news resources.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
No wait: perhaps he does care about Finrod and does want Finrod to come. He perceives Finrod’s role as Master of the Isle, and wants him dead. He attacks his human friends to attract Finrod’s attention. This makes Finrod’s arrival later interesting since Sauron will feel his plan has worked.
But both are immortals. Both Sauron and Finrod have time and both know it. Let's first make a stage for inviting the former host. And as Rób Harding stated Sauron had enough of elven kings for now. His focus is now on self- development and consolidation.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I’m not sure I see why Sauron must feel he can wait, or why he should want to rest in his elimination of elves.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure I see why Sauron must feel he can wait, or why he should want to rest in his elimination of elves.
That might depend on what he can find. Morgoth had this same problem after the Nirnaeth when the Sons of Fëanor were put to flight, leaving East Beleriand for the taking and he had taken Fingon's realms; he knows of Doriath but cannot enter, while thanks to Finrod and Curufin he cannot find Nargothrond and nobody knows of Turgon in Gondolin. His thought sways constantly to the latter because of the foreboding he received from Turgon's presence in Valinor.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Their immortality is something they share with others who have acted promptly or impulsively.
That might depend on what he can find. Morgoth had this same problem after the Nirnaeth when the Sons of Fëanor were put to flight, leaving East Beleriand for the taking and he had taken Fingon's realms; he knows of Doriath but cannot enter, while thanks to Finrod and Curufin he cannot find Nargothrond and nobody knows of Turgon in Gondolin. His thought sways constantly to the latter because of the foreboding he received from Turgon's presence in Valinor.
My idea would be that he doesn’t know where Finrod is but plans to provoke an attack, to which he could set a trap.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
Sorry I’ve not been able to follow the sessions lately so I have no idea what this “tub of evil” means. I’m not sure why he can’t entertain more than one plan simultaneously though.
The Tub of Evil is what we are calling the Well of Souls which is to be based in Tol Sirion. It is a vat he can fill with souls that necromancy will help him raise as an army.

I think of it like this:
The Sheriff of Nottingham has big plans. He'd like to rule as much as possible. But he's a pragmatist. King John is his boss. He can't lay claim to King John's turf. And King John rules the land. But the Sheriff has his corner. And sure, there are barons he needs to win over. There are officials he needs deposing. He will work on them. They are long term threats. But boy, nobody will take him seriously if that little rebel band of soldiers-turned-rascals living in the woods. He needs this area to be as easy as possible to lay claim to. He needs potential players off the board. You know what he can do, then? He can get rid of those damn nuisances. It'll make him look good to his bosses. So he sends off his men to do the dirty work. He has his own machinations to focus on. But wouldn't you know it, he should've paid more attention. Cos know he's made these forest dwellers into real enemies.

I don't think it's a leap to think Sauron goes after Barahir and his men to help advance long term plans even though his attention is on Tol Sirion. He wants to spread a power base but for now, it's early days in terms of taking elven strongholds. You need an army of the undead before giving that a crack. Best to clear what he can from the board first. Sweep out the mortals from the land. Men are no threat after all.

I think he can have more than one plan. Or at least, stages and facets of a long term plan. I just think we need to show what we need to when we need to. And get the truly vital points out as early as possible so we are able to balance the Tol-In-Gaurhoth gang, who are secondary level villains really this season, with our heroes’ introductions. So if we can show all this, which I think is very possible, as swiftly as we can then the audience understand what is at stake and why our heroes actions count so much in the land. Goals, stakes, obstacles.
 
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Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
The Tub of Evil is what we are calling the Well of Souls which is to be based in Tol Sirion. It is a vat he can fill with souls that necromancy will help him raise as an army.

I think of it like this:
The Sheriff of Nottingham has big plans. He'd like to rule as much as possible. But he's a pragmatist. King John is his boss. He can't lay claim to King John's turf. And King John rules the land. But the Sheriff has his corner. And sure, there are barons he needs to win over. There are officials he needs deposing. He will work on them. They are long term threats. But boy, nobody will take him seriously if that little rebel band of soldiers-turned-rascals living in the woods. He needs this area to be as easy as possible to lay claim to. He needs potential players off the board. You know what he can do, then? He can get rid of those damn nuisances. It'll make him look good to his bosses. So he sends off his men to do the dirty work. He has his own machinations to focus on. But wouldn't you know it, he should've paid more attention. Cos know he's made these forest dwellers into real enemies.

I don't think it's a leap to think Sauron goes after Barahir and his men to help advance long term plans even though his attention is on Tol Sirion. He wants to spread a power base but for now, it's early days in terms of taking elven strongholds. You need an army of the undead before giving that a crack. Best to clear what he can from the board first. Sweep out the mortals from the land. Men are no threat after all.

I think he can have more than one plan. Or at least, stages and facets of a long term plan. I just think we need to show what we need to when we need to. And get the truly vital points out as early as possible so we are able to balance a secondary level villain this season with our heroes introduction. So if we can show all this, which I think is very possible, as swiftly as we can then the audience understand what is at stake and why our heroes actions count so much in the land. Goals, stakes, obstacles.
Alright, I can buy this. The perfectionism and pride of Sauron is his downfall.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
Alright, I can buy this. The perfectionism and pride of Sauron is his downfall.
That’s very much what Corey and the gang are leading towards. This is a turning point for Sauron. It’s no the beginning of the end, but it’s a big learning moment. It’s when he begins questions choice to spread his power wide by distributing his might among followers, and decides to accumulate power by drawing from souls using necromancy. Which of course fails.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
But boy, nobody will take him seriously if that little rebel band of soldiers-turned-rascals living in the woods. He needs this area to be as easy as possible to lay claim to. He needs potential players off the board. You know what he can do, then? He can get rid of those damn nuisances. It'll make him look good to his bosses. So he sends off his men to do the dirty work. He has his own machinations to focus on. But wouldn't you know it, he should've paid more attention. Cos know he's made these forest dwellers into real enemies.

I don't think it's a leap to think Sauron goes after Barahir and his men to help advance long term plans even though his attention is on Tol Sirion. He wants to spread a power base but for now, it's early days in terms of taking elven strongholds. You need an army of the undead before giving that a crack. Best to clear what he can from the board first. Sweep out the mortals from the land. Men are no threat after all.
I never had any problems with this. It’s more or less what I wrote before, but more elaborate and more eloquently put. I wanted to add a long-term strategic goal to the elimination of the mortals that would tie in with the arch of the season, but perhaps it’s not possible. :)
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
I never had any problems with this. It’s more or less what I wrote before, but more elaborate and more eloquently put. I wanted to add a long-term strategic goal to the elimination of the mortals that would tie in with the arch of the season, but perhaps it’s not possible. :)
Yeah, I got the sense we were on the same page :)
I think just clearing house. Which comes back to bite him as it’s the catalyst for his own downfall
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
The Tub of Evil is what we are calling the Well of Souls which is to be based in Tol Sirion. It is a vat he can fill with souls that necromancy will help him raise as an army.

I think of it like this:
The Sheriff of Nottingham has big plans. He'd like to rule as much as possible. But he's a pragmatist. King John is his boss. He can't lay claim to King John's turf. And King John rules the land. But the Sheriff has his corner. And sure, there are barons he needs to win over. There are officials he needs deposing. He will work on them. They are long term threats. But boy, nobody will take him seriously if that little rebel band of soldiers-turned-rascals living in the woods. He needs this area to be as easy as possible to lay claim to. He needs potential players off the board. You know what he can do, then? He can get rid of those damn nuisances. It'll make him look good to his bosses. So he sends off his men to do the dirty work. He has his own machinations to focus on. But wouldn't you know it, he should've paid more attention. Cos know he's made these forest dwellers into real enemies.

I don't think it's a leap to think Sauron goes after Barahir and his men to help advance long term plans even though his attention is on Tol Sirion. He wants to spread a power base but for now, it's early days in terms of taking elven strongholds. You need an army of the undead before giving that a crack. Best to clear what he can from the board first. Sweep out the mortals from the land. Men are no threat after all.

I think he can have more than one plan. Or at least, stages and facets of a long term plan. I just think we need to show what we need to when we need to. And get the truly vital points out as early as possible so we are able to balance the Tol-In-Gaurhoth gang, who are secondary level villains really this season, with our heroes’ introductions. So if we can show all this, which I think is very possible, as swiftly as we can then the audience understand what is at stake and why our heroes actions count so much in the land. Goals, stakes, obstacles.
Yes I do agree. Still the small bandit can wait if there is a recently discovered huge golden treassure from Roman times burried down on Sheriff's own basement. Let's recover that safely first before the servants will steal everything. The local barons will not care for the lone bandit in the woods anymore if they get a chest of gold each. First things first.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
Yes I do agree. Still the small bandit can wait if there is a recently discovered huge golden treassure from Roman times burried down on Sheriff's own basement. Let's recover that safely first before the servants will steal everything. The local barons will not care for the lone bandit in the woods anymore if they get a chest of gold each. First things first.
I think you can show him moving on multiple fronts. Sure he’s planning necromancy. But once he’s mastered that he’ll need to move. And if he has orc strongholds developed ready to flow down from the lands above and the elves cannot run and hide in high ground either, then he is ready with an attack plan
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
I think you can show him moving on multiple fronts. Sure he’s planning necromancy. But once he’s mastered that he’ll need to move. And if he has orc strongholds developed ready to flow down from the lands above and the elves cannot run and hide in high ground either, then he is ready with an attack plan
True. But if he catches Beren too soon he will have to go to Dorthonion himself and prepare the attack on Doriath. He will do that, someday, soon, just not now.
 
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