Session 6-08: Beren and Lúthien Part 2

Considering that Elrond is known as Elrond Half-elven, I don't think we are dealing with an unspeakable taboo here. Elf-human relationships are rare, but that is because the immortal vs mortal thing leads to sad endings and it is a sad fate or doom to face that eternal separation. Andreth and Aegnor didn't find a solution to that issue, so they left their relationship behind. Beren and Lúthien DID solve that problem, so hence the Lay. (Well, that, and they successfully stole a silmaril from Morgoth!)

We know that Sam heard the story of Beren One-hand told in the Hall of Fire in Rivendell. Was it the Lay or some other version of the story? That I don't know, but the story is preserved as a tale from the First Age to the end of the Third Age. This is a widely told tale of hope and love.
 
kanji_d said:
I don't really have an opinion one way or another, but the fact is we don't have any larger sample size. There are only five known Elf-Man romances in Middle-Earth. Of those:
  • Re: Mithrellas and Imrazor, I don't believe that just because Legolas doesn't mention them in his song doesn't mean that he was avoiding them. He was singing about Nimrodel and Amroth, and Mithrellas is a related but ancillary plot in that story. He's also only singing a fragment of the Lay. If other Tolkienian lays are any indicator it might have been much longer in full. Legolas almost knows the story - he sees that Imrahil has Elvish blood in him. But I don't think that means he's actively avoiding their story.
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That is exactly my point. Legolas' remark about Imrahil being of elvish ancestry is based on Imrahil 's looks and Legolas seems a little surprised. Were Legolas aware of Mithrlllas' story he would know how and why Imrahil looks the way he looks.

Also the reason why those cases of mixed unions are rare (or simply not much talked about beyond the ruling houses, where they are an important part of royal lineages,) imho suggests a taboo on the broader population - at least among the Sindar and Silvan.
Of course Elrond as a person officially and famously of mixed descent himself could not enforce such a taboo without being inconsistant.

This is inho what the given texts seem to suggest. Which is not binding on SilmFilm, but if done otherwise there, it should be in-story consistant too, somehow.
 
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Some more catching up with thoughts to the more recent eps: re this episode and Luthien's escape from the treehouse: When I listened to this originally i didn't have time to but i really wanted to so Imma see if I can make some sketches of some options of the treehouse/huorn escape this week. Bc I would, a bit late, but still, put in a good word for the, let's say, visual importance of that scene for two reasons:

a) fairytale magic: this season is a big tonal shift in the silmarillion, and i think it would be weird to completely stay clear of the fairytale elements, especially since we need to have a lot of magic still. So I think we should not try and stay as clear as possible of slightly "weird" or "wacky" things, but embrace them, it will make the songbattles fit into the tone better. So I say let's lower the viewer into the hot water of increased fairytale-ness as early as possible, which is in the treehouse/cloak creation scene. Luthien should be set up as the subversive fairytale princess as early as possible imo so the Rapunzel/sleeping beauty tribute scene is kinda important i think.

b) visual interest: Sometimes as a very visual person I listen to the episodes, where the script writers are naturally very focussed on the story and the logistics and everything (which is very important), but then sometimes questions like "what does the treehouse rescue give us" seem much more simple to me than even narrative concerns: It is an awesome magical forest escape! It should be a SETPIECE! It is extremely visually iconic about the B&L story and a gift in a visual medium. We'll already be visiting enough dark dungeons in the rest of the season.
 
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Yes, we should have some opportunities to discuss visuals/sets once we finalize the season outline. I think we (naturally) get caught up in thinking about those things a bit when the visuals are so important to a scene, but it's true that that hasn't been the focus in the podcast yet. I know that Corey Olsen wants to devote an entire podcast to discussing Magic in this season. And I see that there is a thread started in the Sets/Props forum to start on the Treehouse as well.
 
After listening to the session on this part of the story I was left wanting with the story of Hirilorn and thinking that the solution as to why the tree lets Luthien go was not answered satisfactorily for me. Luthien has to convince the tree to let her go, and in the end the tree does. My thoughts when approaching it from a musical perspective is that I need to come up with a progression in Luthien’s songs. This is the first time that she uses song to affect change on another being and every song needs to build on this starting point. To me the rationale needs to be that if Luthien stays she will come to harm and what better way to introduce the concept of elves dying from grief. If Luthien stays and Breen dies she will die of grief so Hirilorn can prevent this harm by letting her go. I don’t believe that we have done a story of an elf dying from grief except for Muriel (but as Corey always says, that is a bad data point). The difficult thing will be to portray this as more than a woman swooning saying that she will die without her man (go script team). To me the emphasis needs to be on the grief and what this does to her fea and hroa. I would also envisage this as being the starting point in her next song, to convince Huan to release her and accompany her. This starting point also is a root for the overall season theme of release from bondage.
 
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