Session 6-16 and 6-17: Music Commissioning

MithLuin

MithLuin

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Session 6-16 will be held on Thursday August 18th at 10 PM Eastern Time. We will be discussing Episode 3. To discuss Episode 3, go to this thread:

Script Discussion S06E03

Alright, this is meant to start the discussion of the outline for Episode 3. For now, we're scheduled for May 13th @ 8ET.
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Session 6-17 will be held on Thursday August 25th at 10 PM Eastern Time. We will be discussing the need for music to help complement the themes and storytelling throughout this season.

Please feel free to share your thoughts about the music in this thread, or in the Music forum, in the Season 6 subforum.
 
How about a theme for Aragorn/Estel/Hope? I've been combing through the Music sub-forum and we don't really have anything for him. This could be an evolving theme, from a more choral, even hymnal sound in Rivendell, a Hardanger fiddle for Thorongil in Rohan, and more of a fanfare sound in Minas Tirith.

Contrast two versions of the Realm of Gondor theme; the first is in french horn, heard at the Council of Elrond, the second is a brighter fanfare in Faramir's flashback to the taking of Osgiliath, both renditions in d-minor.


 
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Another theme suggestion: Professor Olsen said he didn't want a love theme for any couple in general, but would one that's heard between romances between Elves and Men work? It had been an idea of mine with Aegnor and Andreth with an incomplete theme for unrequited love (which wasn't picked up for reasons unknown to me) and there would be variations on various relationships, a women's choir following low brass for Túrin and Finduilas symbolizing her want for him which he doesn't realize. This would contrast, say, Tuor and Idril, whose relationship develops gradually before they approach Turgon, who approves their love.

In the case of Beren and Lúthien and Aragorn and Arwen, perhaps the same theme but shuffled around for Aragorn and Arwen?
 
Ange1e4e5 said:
Another theme suggestion: Professor Olsen said he didn't want a love theme for any couple in general, but would one that's heard between romances between Elves and Men work? It had been an idea of mine with Aegnor and Andreth with an incomplete theme for unrequited love (which wasn't picked up for reasons unknown to me) and there would be variations on various relationships, a women's choir following low brass for Túrin and Finduilas symbolizing her want for him which he doesn't realize. This would contrast, say, Tuor and Idril, whose relationship develops gradually before they approach Turgon, who approves their love.

In the case of Beren and Lúthien and Aragorn and Arwen, perhaps the same theme but shuffled around for Aragorn and Arwen?
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I really like this idea! That theme could be used for several characters in the show:
- Andreth & Aegnor
- Beren & Lúthien
- Túrin & Finduilas
- Tuor & Idril
- Imrazôr & Mithrellas
- Aragorn & Arwen

Maybe also Dior & Nimloth and Eärendil & Elwing?
 
Alcarohtar said:
I really like this idea! That theme could be used for several characters in the show:

Maybe also Dior & Nimloth and Eärendil & Elwing?
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I like the concept, but with those last two pairings it’s a little more complicated. Dior is a half elf living as an elf and marrying an elf woman so perhaps not for this theme. Earendil and Elwing is even more unusual, a half elf binding himself to a three quarters elf both of whom remain immortal. I know that’s a crass way to refer to a metaphysical mystery but since they are the source of the only two true Half-elves (Elrond and Elros) we should probably have their romance theme at least related to the elf-mortal love theme, and recall it when those disparate lines are reunited at the end of the third age in Arwen and Aragorn.
 
Arnorion said:
Dior is a half elf living as an elf and marrying an elf woman so perhaps not for this theme.
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But if Dior is counted as a mortal than it is exactly that - the only difference is that Nimloth has no chance to choose to die a mortal death with him and as such they are eternally separated in death?
 
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I think this is open to interpretation. We get very little on Dior (except that he’s gorgeous) and almost nothing on the relationship he shares with Nimloth. It might be as you say that he is essentially mortal but since we don’t see him living very long after his time hidden in Tol Galen and his short career on his grandfather’s throne, we don’t have much clear evidence on his potential immortality.

The rules, such as they are, for Half-elves don’t seem to become formalized until after the two blended lines come together to produce the twins Elros and Elrond. I think we’re going to have to make some decisions for ourselves since the text is somewhat open on these points.
But we are drifting in this thread which is supposed to be about music, so I’ll wrap up by agreeing with you that there ought to be a general theme or form for mortal-immortal romances which can be adapted to the particulars of several distinct relationships including the ones you identified above.
 
Human-elf romances for which mortality is a one-sided issue in the First Age.

Andreth (mortal) and Aegnor (longeval)
Beren (mortal) and Lúthien (immortal)
Tuor (mortal) and Idril (longeval)
Dior (mortal) and Nimloth (longeval)

Choosing mortality (or immortality) becomes an issue for the following First Age characters:
Lúthien
Possibly Tuor and Idril
Eärendil and Elwing
Elrond
Elros


The easiest way to tell if Tolkien presumed a character was mortal is to look at the age of maturity. If he has the character reaching adulthood and/or marrying in their 20's...this character is not an immortal elf. Happily, that data is consistent with his general rules about the heritability of mortality. Typically, it's not a choice, but there are some key exceptions to that.
 
Do Celegorm and Curufin have a theme? Given what we know of either character, the grand hunter Celegorm could have a hunting-call centered theme and the oily Curufin something on oboe or clarinet, like a snake-charmer.
 
He uses the word immortal to describe her in the poems, but she may not be any different from other elves when it comes to her original fate.
 
Interestingly, the Digital Tolkien search only turns up immortal three times in LotR, and four times in Silmarillion '77. But 18 times in the Letters.
 
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