Session 7-02: The Scope of Season 7

[MithLuin]

We will begin discussing Season 7 during our next session of Silm Film. It is currently tentatively scheduled for Thursday October 5th at 10 PM Eastern.

We have already made some decisions about the beginning and end of the season. The beginning will tell the story of Húrin and Huor in Gondolin. And the ending will be the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, featuring Húrin and Huor's final stand in the Fens of Serech to allow Turgon (and Rhogrin!) to return to Gondolin.

Some things that we should discuss:

1) What is the theme of the season?
It ends in a defeat - the Unnnumbered Tears. Huor is killed, Húrin is captured. Fingon is dead. The Fëanoreans are defeated and all wounded. Azaghal is dead, and what will become of Belegost moving forward? The Easterlings (but not all!) are traitors, Dor-lómin is overrun. Beleriand is occupied. Doriath is shut (except to Túrin). It's all fairly bleak. And yet...despite failing, the story is not that they shouldn't have even tried, is it? Aurë entuluva! is going to ring out in the final moments of the season. Day will come again! From you and from me a new star shall arise. There is certain hope underlying these statements, for all the desperate grim defeat and death going around.

2) What is the midpoint of the season?
In each prior season, we've had a pivot point about halfway through. So, in Season 2, Melkor was released from prison, and we had a Valar-centric episode in the midst of our story of elvenhome. In the Beren and Lúthien season, we had the Tol-in-Gaurhoth episodes, which reunitied Beren and Lúthien and closed that chapter of the story. What will happen around episode 7-8 of Season 7?

3) Major storylines
This is the Nirnaeth Season. What storylines will we have that cover all or part of the season? The romance of Gwindor and Finduilas is something we know we want to include, so how will it connect to larger stories of what is happening in Nargothrond? How will the dwarf storyline bring us to have the king of Belegost on the field of battle? Which characters need an arc through this season?

4) Who is Huor?
Húrin is a character we seem to have some grasp of. We see more of him than his brother, and his personality is clear on the page. But...who is Huor? What is he like? Is he the opposite of his brother, an antagonistic voice against him? Is he the little brother who looks up to his big brother and follows him everywhere? What does he hope to acheive in the Union of Maedhros, and is it in any way different from his brother? I want to discuss his character, because otherwise he will simply become a catchall for whatever we want the 'other' voice in the room to be saying. (There may not be time for this in Session 2, but eventually we'll want to do this)


Note: The Galadriel and Sauron storylines through the end of the First Age will be discussed separately. Not in this thread or session.

 

[Arnorion]

Regarding the theme I’m immediately attracted to Day Shall Come Again, but it would be odd for this to be the theme throughout the whole season as we build to that big moment in the Nirnaeth. That statement, almost a theological dogma, strikes me as Hurin’s response to his present circumstances grounded in his personal belief.

Perhaps the theme then could be the hope of victory over Morgoth which stirs in the hearts of many after word of Luthien and Beren’s story spreads. The enemy is not unassailable, we can do this, but it will be a dark and difficult road. Something like through darkness to amdir or bravery in the face of danger, a call to arms, etc. People will react to this divergently with some emphasizing that victory is achievable, others focused on the difficulty of that path, we can win but it will cost us dearly, are we willing to pay that price.

Then at the end, hope for victory by arms will be crushed leading some to despair, others to flee or hide. Hurin will still be convinced that victory is achievable even if not now, or ever by their own power. He converts amdir to estel, not unlike Sam who sees the Star and realizes that some light will be forever beyond the enemy’s reach, even if his personal situation remains hopeless.

It might help to have the other season themes handy for comparison and to see the thematic progression over time. I’ll bet I can scoop them out of the SFP Show Bible.

 

[MithLuin]

Here's a summary of our discussion of themes for Season 5 (which has some parallels with 7, as it ended with the Battle of Sudden Flame and the Death of Fingolfin):

Suggested Themes for Season 5 (from our discussion back in March 2020)

• Division/Seeds of Evil/Death
  • Ange1e4e5
• Learning/Understanding
  • Rhiannon: This theme differs from mere Collaboration because Learning/Understanding is not so much about figuring out how to work together as it is identifying when working together is possible and when it is not….I think we will have quite a few instances where characters in conflict will both have valid arguments. When they learn from and understand one another's points, the results are generally positive; when they do not, the results are generally negative.
• Loss - Finding/Meeting and Losing
  • Zephen12: It works for the kindreds and couples meeting, and works for the couples breaking up and, well, all the death. And unlike “death” as a theme, the concept of “Loss” has a different connotation. To consider Fingolfin “lost” to his people says more than “he died.” “Loss” also can refer to defeat in battle.
• Unexpected Change/Surprise
  • Rhiannon: "Swifter and briefer are [the Years of the Sun] than the long Years of the Trees in Valinor. In that time the air of Middle-earth became heavy with the breath of growth and mortality, and the changing and ageing of all things was hastened exceedingly."
• Acting/activity vs. Waiting/inactivity
  • Håkan: During the siege, this will come up again and again. Is the siege meaningless? Elves can wait a long time, but men die. What does waiting do with the Men? In the end, Fingolfin can’t wait anymore, years and years of siege have built up enough frustration to drive him to a hopeless attack.
• Separation
  • Octoburn: This kind of covers and vaguely fits in with almost all the themes mentioned, as division, death and loss are all types of being separated. The death of men/mortality is a type of separation, but there's also the physical separation of Aredhel from Turgon and Gondolin (temporarily, then by her death), the Feanorians during/after the Bragollach, Aegnor and Andreth (first physically, then in death), the houses of men being separated, etc.

We ended up going with the Changefulness of Middle-earth, as both a good way to introduce mortals and focus on the elven experience of living in Middle-earth rather than Valinor.

 

[Odola]

4) Who is Huor?
Húrin is a character we seem to have some grasp of. We see more of him than his brother, and his personality is clear on the page. But...who is Huor? What is he like? Is he the opposite of his brother, an antagonistic voice against him? Is he the little brother who looks up to his big brother and follows him everywhere? What does he hope to acheive in the Union of Maedhros, and is it in any way different from his brother? I want to discuss his character, because otherwise he will simply become a catchall for whatever we want the 'other' voice in the room to be saying. (There may not be time for this in Session 2, but eventually we'll want to do this)

What we know of Huor it the he leaves his pregnant and distressed wife behind but also leaves a name for the yet unborn child - "Tuor" which means "strength-vigour". So he seems a man of hope, in contrast to his wife.

 

[MithLuin]

It might help to have the other season themes handy for comparison and to see the thematic progression over time. I’ll bet I can scoop them out of the SFP Show Bible.

From memory, they are as follows. I've included links to some of Philip Menzies' score that relates to these themes.

Season 1: Collaboration vs Domination (Valinor Rising)
The central conflict of this season was the differing leadership styles of Manwë and Melkor. Manwë sought to lead the Valar in a collaborative endeavor to shape Arda. Melkor sought to dominate his followers and Arda through raw power. Mairon (Sauron) is put into a position of choosing between these two when he is the first to discover the newly awakened Elves.
Season 2: Elvenhome (Purpose)
The story for much of Season 2 was the Elves seeking to find their place in the world. We have the journeys from Cuivienen to Valinor, as well as the interpersonal conflict within the house of Finwë.
Season 3: Rebellion (The Oath of Fëanor, The Hiding of Valinor)
This season is about the rebellion of the Noldor, and the betrayals of the Kinslaying, the Shipburning and crossing of the Helcaraxë, and the false parley of Sauron that entraps Maedhros. It does end with the rising of the Sun and arrival of Fingolfin's host, though.
Season 4: Reconcilliation (Reconcilliation Spectrum)
There are several groups who try with various levels of success to reconcile or reject one another in Season 4. We have the Noldor, now divided into the camps of the Host of Fingolfin and the Host of Fëanor encamped at Mithrim. We have the Sindar and the Noldor, meeting for the first time, with ignorance of the Kinslaying giving way to Thingol's ban, but also the wedding of Galadriel and Celeborn. And we have the Dwarves and the Petty-dwarves, who do not attempt to reconcile when the latter are discovered in the caves of Narog.
Season 5: Changefulness (of Middle-earth) - The Light in the West, Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth
This season is all about mortal Men, but from the elven perspective.
Season 6: Leithian (Release from Bondage) - in progress!
The story of Beren and Lúthien brings to a close the first half of Silm Film in the First Age, setting in motion the end of the Age.

 

[kanji_d]

What about, very broadly, union/unity? It is, after all, the Union of Maedhros that leads the campaign on Angband, and it is disunity within the forces of the Elves and Men that ultimately leads to the failure of the campaign. We can contrast the decision of Turgon to send his force from Gondolin with Thingol's decision to not send any from Doriath (the circumstances of those differ, of course, but we actually have some freedom to determine why the Gondolindrim force comes unexpectedly). I'm sure we could whittle this down to something more specific, but that's about where I was thinking.

 

[Arnorion]

We can contrast the decision of Turgon to send his force from Gondolin with Thingol's decision to not send any from Doriath … we actually have some freedom to determine why the Gondolindrim force comes unexpectedly).

The reason for the differing responses to the call for union could be assessment of timing. Some deem the time is ripe but others aren’t convinced. This could tie in nicely with changefulness of the season prior to the Beren and Luthien season.
They have learned that the nature of middle earth is change, now they know too that Morgoth is assailable, time runs more swiftly than ever: now is the time to join forces and strike. Maybe the theme is “a day of doom approaches”, but they don’t know what kind of doom it is, good or evil.

 

[MithLuin]

I think that part of the issue is that the narrative voice in the published Silmarillion, being well aware of the failure of the Union of Maedhros and the Unnumbered Tears that followed, cannot help but present this endeavor as an inevitable defeat. But for those making these choices...surely they had some hope of success. They thought they could pull this off...and better now than later.

 

[Arnorion]

But for those making these choices...surely they had some hope of success. They thought they could pull this off...and better now than later.

Yes, the storyteller frames it up as a long defeat and the frequent commentary of the narrator queue even first time readers to expect tragedy, but we need not present it that way. And certainly the characters in those stories must make decisions which make sense given what they know or reasonably believe to be true.
So perhaps a theme like strength through unity, or the time has come. I’d like to be able to contrast the amdir-based approach they take now, strength in arms, with the estel-based conclusion, endurance in hope. Both involve an expectation of a positive outcome but by drastically different means. The higher hope can’t truly be born until the earlier hope (born of pride in their own strength) is dashed.

 

[Octoburn]

Yes, rather than jumping fully into Hurin's "Aurë entuluva!" from the beginning of the season, we could start in Fingon's place of Auta i lómë! Utúlie'n aurë! (The night is passing, the day shall come) which leads into Hurin's Aurë entuluva, which eventually sort of leads to Turin's "this only ways wanting, now comes the night." Soo it looks like a lot of light/dark and day/night contrasts in the next 3 or so seasons.

So rather than starting with the theme of "it's dark, it will be day again, eventually" perhaps the starting place is "we can see the light at the end of the tunnel (through the actions of B&L), let's drive the darkness out."

 

[Arnorion]

I love the way, @Octoburn, that you’ve anchored the themes in the language of the characters themselves. The rest of our thoughts and ideas can be fitted into those headings and explored in the seasons they relate too, with those as guiding images: night is passing, day shall come again, now comes the night - for the next few seasons.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

4) Who is Huor?

What we know of Huor is that he is a physical contrast to Húrin (Huor is tall, Húrin is short). As for personality, the House of Hador is known for fiery tempers and determination as both virtue and flaw (Húrin, known for being "strong in body and fiery of mood", stands his ground against the onslaught of trolls and orcs and is only defeated by sheer number of foes by falling under their weight, refuses to bend in the face of torture and only really does so after 28 years of watching his family suffer, Túrin spends his entire life trying to fight Morgoth with questionable ideas, Nienor tries to engage Glaurung in a mind-wiping staring contest). Perhaps Huor's determination is of a different sort but with his eye on the future, think the difference between the fiery Boromir and the far-sighted Faramir, a steady second to balance Húrin's boldness. Maybe he has a dream the night before the first day of the Nirnaeth that "From you and me a new star will arise!"

 

[Arnorion]

Perhaps Huor's determination is of a different sort but with his eye on the future

I don’t want to lean too hard on the Boromir/Faramir parallel but it’s instructive. They are not opposites, they have much in common but with some key differences. I like your idea that both Huor and Hurin are determined but their determination is different in character.
We see that Hurin’s indomitable spirit is like stone, obdurate and very strong, but when it finally reaches the breaking point it shatters. Huor then might be determined but flexible, changing and flowing as need be to fit the situation, receptive to new information whether updated circumstances or supernatural insights. His determination could be like water, the element which can erode even stone given enough time, also the element associated in Arda with dreams and visions.

 

[Odola]

His determination could be like water, the element which can erode even stone given enough time, also the element associated in Arda with dreams and visions.

Given that Tuor his son is the pupil of Ulmo - this seems fitting.

 

[Arnorion]

Given that Tuor his son is the pupil of Ulmo - this seems fitting.

Thanks @Odola , that rather convenient alignment had occurred to me as well. It would also not be difficult to sprinkle some of that elemental language into the scripts either: Hurin’s stone-hard will, he set his face like flint, Tuor perceived the tides of battle shifting, his morale reached its lowest ebb, etc. We would not need to too explicit and less is probably more as far as this language goes.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

3. Major Storylines
The dominating story will be the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, beyond doubt. However, there's going to be a bunch of intersecting plots concerning its characters.
Take Húrin for example who will likely be our main protagonist.

• He's MIA in the events after the Dagor Bragollach during an attack on Brethil, so where has he been? In Gondolin with his brother Huor.
• They stay in Gondolin for some time until Húrin desires to return; Turgon is reluctant but agrees on condition they never say anything about Gondolin's location.
• In 462 F.A., Húrin's father Galdor is slain and Húrin accedes to the lordship of Dor-Lomín.
• Húrin marries Morwen of the House of Bëor and sires three children.
  • Huor marries Rian and sires Tuor (born after Huor's death).
• Húrin foolishly takes every able man to the Nirnaeth including Huor; they're all killed and decapitated save for Húrin, who's captured.

Gondolin has Turgon and his participation in the Nirnaeth where he brings 10,000. Maeglin's infatuation with Idril could likely make itself known as we don't want it completely out of the blue when Tuor comes to Gondolin. Fingon is killed in the Nirnaeth and so Turgon becomes High King of the Noldor since we've decided that Gil-galad is not Fingon's son.

With the Union of Maedhros there's going to be some form of conflict.

• Because Maedhros is establishing this union:
  • Doriath (which rarely participates in these ventures anyways) refuses to send aid aside from Beleg and Mablung on personal initiative
  • Nargothrond, reeling from the death of Finrod and his betrayal by Celegorm and Curufin, only sends a company led by Gwindor. Gwindor should have his betrothal to Finduilas established since they're supposed to have been so by the Nirnaeth; the Nargothrond company is slaughtered to a man aside from Gwindor who is taken prisoner.

 

[Arnorion]

Take Húrin for example who will likely be our main protagonist. … In Gondolin with his brother Huor.

Nargothrond, reeling from the death of Finrod and his betrayal by Celegorm and Curufin, only sends a company led by Gwindor.

How much of the Gondolin story line do we want to display in this season? I think it makes sense to show all the major threads of the continent more or less in timeline order as they are happening but I think there was talk of leaving Hurin and Huor’s whereabouts a secret (as they keep it secret from their people as they swore to Turgon) to preserve much of the Gondolin storyline for another season focused exclusively on that area.
Also, I’d love to flesh out the new social-political situation of Nargothrond. They are less trustful of outsiders now, turning to venomed dart and stealthy vigilance, but who is left for King Orodreth to talk to. Finrod took his own most loyal companions away to die in Sauron’s dungeon so who is left to counsel the King? We also want to set up the people who will oppose Turin when he comes. Plus, why exactly does Gwindor go to the battle? Is it just to avenge his brother Guillin and how did that audience play out with Orodreth?

 

[MithLuin]

Re: Gondolin

We need to show Húrin and Huor in Gondolin in the first episode to make Turgon's arrival at the Nirnaeth make sense.

So, at a bare minimum, we will show Gondolin bookmarking the season.

But we do have the opportunity to show how Turgon finds out about the Union of Maedhros, and put the choice on the table for him. We can't show his decision before he arrives.

I am reminded of Theoden's 'where was Gondor?' speech in Peter Jackson's films. It's...a bit awkward, but does clearly set up the beacons and the exchange of 'Gondor calls for aid!' 'And Rohan will answer' (which is quite nice).

So, how much 'set up' do we want to do in Gondolin? I think anything we show should be in service to the reveal that an army 10,000 strong has marched in secret from Gondolin. We can set up things for later seasons, of course (such as Maeglin's rather cold reception of Húrin and Huor), but the focus needs to be on this season's story unfolding.

 

[MithLuin]

Timeline/family tree questions

We are (mostly) where we are supposed to be in the story now, but since we are dealing with mortal characters, I thought it might be helpful to establish exactly how old everyone will be at the beginning and ending of the season.

So, first the Timeline:

Season 6 ended with the return of Beren and Lúthien from Mandos. In our story, the end of the Quest takes place in F.A. 463 (Episode 10 in Angband and the wedding in Episode 12 are in this year). Naturally, time in the Halls of Mandos is nebulous at best, and some time clearly passed while they were dead (the winter of Thingol was not a week-long event!) So their return could be 464, maybe a bit later. And then Dior is born after that.

Season 7 will begin with the sojourn of Húrin and Huor in Gondolin. We have yet to explain exactly where that fits in the Beren and Lúthien story, but it will be sometime between the fall of Tol Sirion to Sauron in FA 457 at the end of Episode 1 and while orcs from Tol-in-Gaurhoth are searching for Lúthien in FA 463 in Episode 9 (the same episode where Daeron approaches the Encircling Mountains and meets the eagle Gwaihir). Húrin and Huor are not present in Brethil in FA 463 when Beren and Lúthien visit there (so they never meet), and are living in Gondolin when the eagles carry Beren and Lúthien over the hidden ciy. Morwen and Rían do meet Beren and Lúthien and attend their wedding. (They also encounter Carcharoth after).

Season 7 will end with the Nirnaeth Arnoediad in FA 472. That date matches the original text. When we've altered the timeline a bit from time to time, we've kept key events 'anchored' to allow everything else to match up with them. Both the Dagor Bragollach in FA 455 and the Nirnaeth Arnoediad in FA 472 are being treated as anchor points. The Beren and Lúthien story took place between them, but nothing within it was treated as a fixed point in the timeline from the original.

So Episodes 2-13 of Season 7 will take place over 9 years, and the first episode will overlap with the prior season.

Here's the family trees of the Houses of Hador, Haleth, and Bëor covering this time period:



House of Haleth:


House of Bëor:



Mortal Characters of Season 7 (Age at the end of Episode 1 [FA 463] - Age in Episode 13 [FA 472])

House of Bëor
Emeldir (60 - deceased)
Emeldir (a decendant of Adanel and Barahir's widow) will be the leader of the House of Bëor in Dor-lómin, as she is the one who decided the refugees could move from Brethil to Dor-lómin at the death of Andreth. While she could certainly still be alive at the time of the Nirnaeth, we will likely want to discuss plans for her death this season. She could, for instance, die in the plague that kills Lalaith in FA 469.

Morwen (20 - 29)
Morwen is a teenager at the time Húrin and Huor go missing. She marries Húrin upon his return (when she is 20), and their son Túrin is born within the year (when she is 21). She is 23 years old when Lalaith is born, and 26 years old when Lalaith dies. She loses her husband when she is 29, and later gives birth to Nienor at age 30.

Rían (13 - 22)
Rían was only 5 when she fled Ladros to live in Brethil, and is about 13 when she migrates with her cousin Morwen to Dor-lómin. She meets Huor after his return from Gondolin, and at some point near the Nirnaeth, they wed and she becomes pregnant with their child Tuor. She is very distraught over the loss of her husband, and after giving birth, leaves her son with the exiled elf Annael and dies on the Hill of the Slain when she is only 22.


House of Haleth
Haldir (54 - 63)
Haldir was fostering his nephews Húrin and Huor in Brethil at the time they went missing. He'd be about 54 years old by the time they return. He outlives his brother-in-law Galdor, and is able to lead the host of Brethil in the Nirnaeth despite being in his 60s. He dies in the battle, and his widow Gloredhel dies that same year.

Hareth (48 - 57)
Haldir's sister and Galdor's wife. She is the mother of Húrin and Huor and will definitely feature in the reunion scene in Dor-lómin. She grew up in Brethil, but has lived in Dor-lómin since her marriage. She sent her sons to her brother in Brethil, and they went missing from there. We have not discussed a storyline for her character yet, but we could do so this season. She will be 57 years old at the time of the Nirnaeth.

Handir (22 - 31)
Handir is Haldir and Gloredhel's son. He's certainly old enough to go with his father to fight in the Nirnaeth, but if so, we will probably want him to survive. He is the double first cousin of Húrin and Huor, and spent his early teen years with them while his parents were fostering them. He and his wife Beldis have a son (Brandir the Lame) early in Season 7, so Brandir is 7 years old at the time of the Nirnaeth.


House of Hador

Húrin (24 - 33)
Húrin son of Galdor is born in Dor-lómin and fostered by his aunt and uncle in the Forest of Brethil as a teen. He is involved in a skirmish with orcs north of Brethil and taken by eagles to Gondolin sometime in the age range of 18-22. He will be 24 years old at the time he leaves Gondolin and returns to Dor-lómin. He will marry Morwen and become the father of Túrin within a year. Lalaith is born when he is 27 (and dies when he is 30). He will be 33 at the time of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad and his capture. His son Túrin will be 8 years old.

Huor (21 - 30)
Huor son of Galdor is born in Dor-lómin and fostered by his aunt and uncle in the Forest of Brethil as a young teen. He is involved in a skirmish with orcs north of Brethil and taken by eagles to Gondolin sometime in the age range of 15-19. He will be 21 years old at the time he leaves Gondolin and returns to Dor-lómin. He will marry Rían (who is 8 years younger than him) shortly before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. He will be 30 years old when he dies in the battle.

Galdor (51-deceased)
Galdor is the son of Hador who survived the Dagor Bragollach (unlike his younger brother Gundor). He has two sons, Húrin and Huor, whom he sent to be fostered with his sister and brother-in-law in Brethil when they were teens. He is the Lord of Dor-lómin, but he will die very early in the season, leaving that position to his son Húrin, who has recently returned from Gondolin.

Glóredhel (53 - 62)
Glóredhel is the eldest child of Hador and Gildis. She married Haldir at the double wedding [in Season 5] when she was 26 and then moved to Brethil. Their only child Handir was born five years later when she was 31. She fostered her nephews Húrin and Huor in Brethil while they were teens, but they were lost. At the end of Season 7, her husband will go to fight in the Nirnaeth and never return; she will die of grief that same year.



In Season 7, all of the mortal characters listed above are living in Dor-lómin, with the exception of the ruling family of Brethil - Haldir, Glóredhel, and their child Handir.



Hopefully this information will be helpful while working out storylines featuring these characters!

 

[MithLuin]

We will be killing off some mortal characters by something other than old age this season (before the war at the end, I mean). So, we'll have to think about what happens to them and how that influences the story at that point.

Lalaith, of course, will die in a plague when she is 3.

But what will happen to Galdor? He needs to die early in the season so that Húrin can become the Lord of Dor-lómin soon after his return from Gondolin.

And how will we handle the end of Emeldir's story? Last we saw her, she was attending her son's wedding and fleeing from Carcharoth, and then deciding to migrate to Dor-lómin from Brethil. What happens to her after she gets there? She doesn't have to die this season, but if she does - how and why? What impact will that have on the story? If we decide to keep her alive for later seasons, what will be her role there?