Session 7-05: Húrin and Huor

MithLuin

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Our next session will be on Thursday November 16th at 10 PM Eastern Time. (Note: For those outside this timezone, we just went through the daylight savings time change, so double-check the time for the next one).

We will be discussing the story of Húrin and Huor for the season - we need to come up with what events will happen in their stories, as well as an overall arc for the season.

We will begin with their orc skirmish, eagle voyage, and time in Gondolin. And then with their petition to leave and return to their people so they can join the fight against Morgoth. Their hope should be very practical at this time. We will likely end the first episode with their return to Dor-lómin and reunion with their families.

We will end with the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, showing both of their roles in the battle, including their reunion with Turgon and the forces of Gondolin. But then will come the betrayal, defeat, and death of Fingon. We will end the 13th episode with the retreat to the Fens of Serech, where the Men of Dor-lómin will make a final stand to guard Turgon's retreat. Huor's final expression of estel will be made to Turgon, when he says "From you and from me a new star shall arise" (in reference to Eärendil). Húrin's final expression of estel will be "Day Shall Come Again!" (aurë entuluva) Huor is killed, and Húrin is captured.

....what happens in between? There are a few events we know, but we need to come up with the story of Dor-lómin for this season.
 
What we know of Húrin is that he returns to Dor-lómin from Gondolin, his family guesses he's been there even though he doesn't confirm it, his father is killed sometime later and Húrin becomes Lord of Dor-lómin. He marries Morwen of the House of Bëor, they have two (later three) children. We'll probably have some focus on his courtship of Morwen and adjusting to being Lord of his house. He's likely at the forefront of the Union of Maedhros as he possesses the biggest standing army left amongst the Edain. Húrin's daughter Urwen dies of plague.

Huor is mostly a silent supporting character to Húrin; he goes to Gondolin with him and later back to Dor-lómin, sometime later he marries Morwen's cousin Rian, he gets killed at the Nirnaeth when he gets shot in the eye. Huor's son Tuor is born posthumously.

This is something I had for Huor a few sessions ago, suggesting him as a foil with Húrin and a case study in contrasts; Húrin is stubborn, Huor may change his approach to problems. Húrin's stubborness and that of his spouse and children spells disaster, Huor's son Tuor shows a willingness to adapt to situations and survives.

What we know of Huor is that he is a physical contrast to Húrin (Huor is tall, Húrin is short). As for personality, the House of Hador is known for fiery tempers and determination as both virtue and flaw (Húrin, known for being "strong in body and fiery of mood", stands his ground against the onslaught of trolls and orcs and is only defeated by sheer number of foes by falling under their weight, refuses to bend in the face of torture and only really does so after 28 years of watching his family suffer, Túrin spends his entire life trying to fight Morgoth with questionable ideas, Nienor tries to engage Glaurung in a mind-wiping staring contest). Perhaps Huor's determination is of a different sort but with his eye on the future, think the difference between the fiery Boromir and the far-sighted Faramir, a steady second to balance Húrin's boldness. Maybe he has a dream the night before the first day of the Nirnaeth that "From you and me a new star will arise!"
 
Yeah, I would say he definitely speaks Sindarin, and may know Quenya from Gondolin (where the Ban has not really been a thing).
 
Tolkien suggested that the court of Gondolin spoke Quenya, and Húrin and Huor are clearly interacting with the court. So, they do have an opportunity to learn Quenya during their sojourn there, if that matters.
 
We should spend some thought on considering the relationship of Húrin and Morwen. How will that progress, and how will that help us to tell our story?

Ilana has done some groundwork with introducing Morwen as a young woman in Season 6 Episode 12. We see Morwen being quite practical. She's a little proud and harsh. But she's also quite impressed by what she sees in Doriath. We'll want to build on that in Season 7, and make sure we show her growing from what we've already seen of her.

Also, we'll be showing her entire relationship with Húrin, all the way to the last meeting at their children's grave. So no pressure to get all of the relationship dynamics right away - there's time for things to grow and develop over the course of their marriage.

1) First meeting
Do they meet as young teens in Brethil? They are both there prior to Húrin and Huor being taken to Gondolin, so they had the opportunity to meet. Did they? If so, what did they think of one another? Was it a positive interaction? Was it one-sided, where one was more interested in the other? Was it a teenage crush (on either side)? If she liked him, was she saddened when he was lost (presumed killed)? If he liked her, was he hoping to see her again and missing her while he was in Gondolin? While we will not be showing their first meeting chronologically, this is something that we could flash back to in their story, so we could consider how it would play out.

2) Romance in Dor-lómin
What are their impressions of each other when they meet after Húrin's time in Gondolin? Now, he is clearly the heir to the Lord of Dor-lómin, and will be leading his people someday. She is a refugee, moved to her third home (Ladros, Brethil, and now Dor-lómin). What draws them to one another? How much of their relationship is personal, and how much of it is based on a sense of duty? Is the courtship mutual, one-sided, a political arrangement? What do others think of the match? What are their attitudes going into the wedding?

3) Early marriage
What issues must they adjust to after their wedding? The House of Hador is much more traditionally patriarcal, led by warriors. Whereas the House of Bëor has a strong tradition of wise-women taking part in the leadership. And Húrin was raised in Brethil, which has a different approach to the role of women in society. How do Húrin and Morwen navigate their own expectations with the reality of starting married life in Dor-lómin?

4) Children
How does having children change Morwen and Húrin. Presumably they're both happy and thrilled to have a family, but that is a big change that alters a couple's dynamic. What are their hopes and dreams for the future of their children? And how will they respond to the grief of Lalaith's death in the plague?

5) War
Húrin is going to be somewhat single-mindedly focused on bringing the war to Morgoth, on making the Union of Maedhros work. He'll be working closely with the elves (particularly Fingon) and bringing all their people on board. And presumably he was like this before he came back from Gondolin. So...how does Morwen feel about that? Is she supportive? Or does she feel that he's taking it too far at some point? Or does she get any sort of premonition on the eve of battle about wanting him not to go? Etc. What terms will they part on?


We will be using the story of this couple to tell the larger story of the humans at this time. So, the dynamics of the House of Bëor and the House of Hador will be tied up in this relationship (as well as Rían's relationship with Huor, which will come later).
 
lana has done some groundwork with introducing Morwen as a young woman in Season 6 Episode 12. We see Morwen being quite practical. She's a little proud and harsh. But she's also quite impressed by what she sees in Doriath. We'll want to build on that in Season 7, and make sure we show her growing from what we've already seen of her.
I also tried to show Morwen in that episode as a future leader, or at least with leadership aspirations (which Emeldir recognises). I think she has a profound sense of wanting to find stability for the House of Bëor. So this is not just duty thrust upon her but something that is already internalised.

With Húrin already the product of a mixed marriage, I think the two of them could be on the same wavelength about the value of their union for the future of the Edain. My preference is to have their marriage be based on this mutual project, starting with a profound respect for each other, with love developing slowly and really flourishing with the births of Túrin and Lalaith. It might help portraying this as a marriage of equals. I can imagine that everyone in both Hador and Bëor camps would be happy about this union.

If Morwen has met Húrin when they were both young adolescents in Brethil, they could already have some kind of understanding of each other's motives and personalities (even if they don't specifically discuss a future together). She could be a bit wary of him after he has shown up clearly changed from his Gondolin experience, but that can be resolved I'm sure.

I'm less keen on a version where Húrin falls in love with Morwen for her beauty and has to pursue her.
 
We also have an opportunity to introduce Aerin early on as a Hador woman that Morwen could develop a relationship with. Maybe Aerin can play a role in how Morwen comes to see Húrin as a marriage partner (or vice versa).
 
I'm less keen on a version where Húrin falls in love with Morwen for her beauty and has to pursue her.

Why not have a woman court a man for a change? We will see Finduilas failing at this, because she has no idea how to do this.

What if Morwen remembers Húrin as a boastful youth but seeing him having gained some polish in Gondolin she is now impressed with him
(she liked Doriath, so she appreciates culture and sophistication to a degree, and as such a union would be fitting for her own political aspirations of becoming a leader and so she tactfully proposes a mutually helpful alliance?)
 
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I also tried to show Morwen in that episode as a future leader, or at least with leadership aspirations (which Emeldir recognises). I think she has a profound sense of wanting to find stability for the House of Bëor. So this is not just duty thrust upon her but something that is already internalised.

With Húrin already the product of a mixed marriage, I think the two of them could be on the same wavelength about the value of their union for the future of the Edain. My preference is to have their marriage be based on this mutual project, starting with a profound respect for each other, with love developing slowly and really flourishing with the births of Túrin and Lalaith. It might help portraying this as a marriage of equals. I can imagine that everyone in both Hador and Bëor camps would be happy about this union.

If Morwen has met Húrin when they were both young adolescents in Brethil, they could already have some kind of understanding of each other's motives and personalities (even if they don't specifically discuss a future together). She could be a bit wary of him after he has shown up clearly changed from his Gondolin experience, but that can be resolved I'm sure.

I'm less keen on a version where Húrin falls in love with Morwen for her beauty and has to pursue her.
How much time would they have in Brethil? Morwen comes to Brethil shortly after the Dagor Bragollach and Húrin disappears during that time or in the aftermath of it.
 
Maeglin might speak Quenya in an effort to cut himself of from his father's legacy and be overeager to appear Noldo.

Maeglin would probably insist on being called Lómion to his face, even if all would call him Maeglin behind his back...
 
How much time would they have in Brethil? Morwen comes to Brethil shortly after the Dagor Bragollach and Húrin disappears during that time or in the aftermath of it.

It depends on when we place the skirmish that results in them going to Gondolin, but at a minimum, several years. The skirmish won't occur before the fall of Tol Sirion, which does not happen for over a year after the Dagor Bragollach, and most likely the skirmish will occur after the deaths of the outlaws in Dorthonion. It will happen before Beren and Lúthien go to Angband, but that does still give us a range of time from FA 457 to FA 461.

Here are some ages of mortals during this season (to help with the chronology):

Mortal Characters of Season 7
(Age at the end of Episode 1 [FA 463] - Age in Episode 13 [FA 472])

House of Bëor
Emeldir (60 - deceased)
Emeldir (a decendant of Adanel, and Barahir's widow) will be the leader of the House of Bëor in Dor-lómin, as she is the one who decided the refugees could move from Brethil to Dor-lómin at the death of Andreth. While she could certainly still be alive at the time of the Nirnaeth, we will likely want to discuss plans for her death this season. She could, for instance, die in the plague that kills Lalaith in FA 469.

Morwen (20 - 29)
Morwen is a teenager at the time Húrin and Huor go missing. She marries Húrin upon his return (when she is 20), and their son Túrin is born within the year (when she is 21). She is 23 years old when Lalaith is born, and 26 years old when Lalaith dies. She loses her husband when she is 29, and later gives birth to Nienor at age 30.

Rían (13 - 22)
Rían was only 5 when she fled Ladros to live in Brethil, and is about 13 when she migrates with her cousin Morwen to Dor-lómin. She meets Huor after his return from Gondolin, and at some point near the Nirnaeth, they wed and she becomes pregnant with their child Tuor. She is very distraught over the loss of her husband, and after giving birth, leaves her son with the exiled elf Annael and dies on the Hill of the Slain when she is only 22.


House of Haleth
Haldir (54 - 63)
Haldir was fostering his nephews Húrin and Huor in Brethil at the time they went missing. He'd be about 54 years old by the time they return. He outlives his brother-in-law Galdor, and is able to lead the host of Brethil in the Nirnaeth despite being in his 60s. He dies in the battle, and his widow Gloredhel dies that same year.

Hareth (48 - 57)
Haldir's sister and Galdor's wife. She is the mother of Húrin and Huor and will definitely feature in the reunion scene in Dor-lómin. She grew up in Brethil, but has lived in Dor-lómin since the double wedding 27 years prior. She sent her sons to her brother and sister-in-law in Brethil, and they went missing from there. We have not discussed a storyline for her character yet, but we could do so this season. She will be 57 years old at the time of the Nirnaeth.

Handir (22 - 31)
Handir is Haldir and Gloredhel's son. He's certainly old enough to go with his father to fight in the Nirnaeth, but if so, we will probably want him to survive. He is the double first cousin of Húrin and Huor, and spent his early teen years with them while his parents were fostering them He and his wife Beldis have a son (Brandir the Lame) early in Season 7, so Brandir is 7 years old at the time of the Nirnaeth. .


House of Hador
Húrin (24 - 33)
Húrin son of Galdor is born in Dor-lómin and fostered by his aunt and uncle in the Forest of Brethil as a teen. He is involved in a skirmish with orcs north of Brethil and taken by eagles to Gondolin sometime in the age range of 18-22. He will be 24 years old at the time he leaves Gondolin and returns to Dor-lómin. He will marry Morwen and become the father of Túrin within a year. Lalaith is born when he is 27 (and dies when he is 30). He will be 33 at the time of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad and his capture. His son Túrin will be 8 years old.

Huor (21 - 30)
Huor son of Galdor is born in Dor-lómin and fostered by his aunt and uncle in the Forest of Brethil as a young teen. He is involved in a skirmish with orcs north of Brethil and taken by eagles to Gondolin sometime in the age range of 15-19. He will be 21 years old at the time he leaves Gondolin and returns to Dor-lómin. He will marry Rían (who is 8 years younger than him) shortly before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. He will be 30 years old when he dies in the battle.

Galdor (51-deceased)
Galdor is the son of Hador who survived the Dagor Bragollach (unlike his younger brother Gundor). He has two sons, Húrin and Huor, whom he sent to be fostered with his sister and brother-in-law in Brethil when they were teens. He is the Lord of Dor-lómin, but he will die very early in the season, leaving that position to his son Húrin, who has recently returned from Gondolin.

Glóredhel (53 - 62)
Glóredhel is the eldest child of Hador and Gildis. She married Haldir at the double wedding [in Season 5] when she was 26 and then moved to Brethil. Their only child Handir was born five years later when she was 31. She fostered her nephews Húrin and Huor in Brethil while they were teens, but they were lost. At the end of Season 7, her husband will go to fight in the Nirnaeth and never return; she will die of grief that same year.



In Season 7, all of the mortal characters listed above are living in Dor-lómin, with the exception of the ruling family of Brethil - Haldir, Glóredhel, and their child Handir.

Hopefully this information will be helpful while working out storylines featuring these characters!
 
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As far as placement of events is concerned, do we want Galdor to die before or after Húrin returns from Gondolin?
 
After, so they can have a conversation before his death. Coming home and finding out that your father has died in your absense is awful, certainly. but the audience won't feel that if they're trying to remember who Galdor is. So, better to reintroduce Galdor and have the reunion with his lost sons where he asks them where they've been, and then have his death after that point.
 
Tolkien suggested that the court of Gondolin spoke Quenya, and Húrin and Huor are clearly interacting with the court. So, they do have an opportunity to learn Quenya during their sojourn there, if that matters.

I've just read the 1937 Quenta version of the (early parts of the) Túrin story, and it mentions explicitly that Túrin could speak Noldorin (this is before Thingol's Ban was a thing Tolkien thought of). This is not kept in the Narn, though, where it has Nellas teach him how to speak Sindarin in the style of Doriath. I don't have the library copy of War of the Jewels at the moment, so I can't check the Grey Annals, but I presume it wouldn't have Túrin speaking Quenya openly in Doriath! Not to mention that Noldorin became Sindarin, but that's an orthogonal issue.

In any case, Túrin might have learned Quenya from Húrin if the latter learns it in Gondolin.
 
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