First of all, I want to thank cellardur for prompting me to think about Turgon's actions throughout the Silmarillion in a completely new light. It's definitely food for thought, but I think he can be interpreted in several ways, and we get the fun of deciding which interpretation we go with. To put my cards immediately on the table, I am sympathetic to the quasi-messianic take on Turgon that Corey proposed -- drawing on the early idea of Melkor feeling dread whenever he encountered Turgon in Valinor, if I recall correctly -- but for perhaps an unusual reason. If we take this tact on Turgon, we get to tell a story rarely told, and even more rarely told well (looking at you, George Lucas) -- the messiah that wasn't, the chosen one who failed. That being said, I think that cellardur's points should be considered, even if I would offer opposing interpretations of them. 1. Now, I'm the first to admit I don't know the unpublished material -- or even the published Silmarillion, as well as some here, but I don't recall any sense in which there's a majority, or significant minority, or anyone other than Aredhel wanting to leave Gondolin. We certainly could go in that direction -- "we came to explore Middle Earth, and you've locked us in this one (admittedly lovely) valley?" -- but I tend to think of Gondolin like Doriath or Lothlorien, where almost everyone is quite content to stay and do the same thing for a millennium., which would make Aredhel's attitude the deviant one. Also, Ulmo did sort of tell Turgon to make a secret stronghold. I think letting Aredhel leave is an act of love, not favoritism, though of course those lines can be blurred easily. 2. I'd never thought to contrast Maeglin and Hurin before! And I certainly can see the comparison. But Turgon is in a bit of a different situation with Eol and Maeglin. Gondolin's security depends on it remaining a dead secret. Turgon does not know Eol or Maeglin, and has every reason to believe Eol at least can't be trusted with the secret, that he would have no loyalty or fondness for Turgon or the Noldor to in any way risk his own neck to keep the location hidden. Turgon might not be perfectly fair to Eol, perhaps, but it's hard to blame him for being harsh to the man who kidnapped and impregnated his sister. Maeglin, I agree, is a bit of a more murky call. It's something I look forward to discussing more. 3. I confess I don't recall what you're referring to here, with Idril. Is it something from the later unpublished materials? When it comes to the "brutal execution" of Eol, well. Yes. Turgon does order an elf executed, which is a Big Deal. But think about it from Turgon's view. This stranger, who professes to hate the Noldor, kidnapped a princess of the Noldor, Turgon's own beloved sister, "wed" her, and kept her and her son prisoners in his home for years. When they flee, he pursues, and demands their return. Even when he scornfully renounces his "rights" to Aredhel, he asserts his authority over Maeglin even to the level of Roman pater familias, and chooses death for his adult son. Then he brandishes a weapon in the king's own hall and attempts to strike down the kinsman of the king, wounding his own "wife". Then, he conceals that the weapon is poisoned, until the princess' wound festers, and presumably isn't exactly helpful in providing an antidote. Turgon has been offended as Noldo, King, and Brother -- is it any surprise he's not exactly merciful? Does that justify capital punishment? Well, if you believe it ever is, probably. But cellardur's certainly right to point out the aberration of elvish law and custom, and I think there's definitely a case that Turgon is acting in wrath against Eol, not justice. 4. When Turgon rejects Hurin, doesn't he get a lamenting line about even Hurin falling under Morgoth's sway? So he underestimates Hurin, like Morgoth did. It's tragic, but I don't think Turgon can be accused of simply being callous here. Celladur's final point (in the original post), that emphasizing/building Turgon up too much could distract from his grandson is a good one. I'd like to think and talk more about that. All this is to say that I think we have a lot to think through and plan for Turgon's character arch. I look forward to the years ahead; but more pressingly, where do we think we need him at the beginning of Season 4?