Amazon series: reactions to news and rumours. (Spoiler alert!)

Makar

Member
It wasn't in any trailer, it was 20 seconds of leaked phone camera footage from the exclusive Hall H screening at San Diego Comic Con, posted on Twitter and taken down not too long later. It's much better in the actual show, but I can't find any proper clips of it from the show online.
Oh, i just heard about it on The Prancing Pony Podcast, so i guessed it was an early showing of a trailer. They do EXPLICITY say that it was Morgoths shadow, but they may have gotten it wrong.

Anyways, thanks for clearing this up :)
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
What can i say, i almost hope not so, it was a good decision to keep it brief and vague. It was one of my favourite scenes in the first episode!

(I didn't do that screenshot either... i just found it on the web)
 

David_M_R

Active Member
That still shows a slightly vaguer silhouette than it becomes. It resolves quite clearly into a (smoky) humanoid shape with a spiky crown, but I'll not say more than that. The on-screen appearance is not for a long time, since the story has to get from the Trees to the end of the First Age very quickly with not a lot of legal wiggle room. But it's clear to Silm readers what's going on, and the narration, while a very high-level summary, tells the viewing audience enough to go on.
 

Makar

Member
That still shows a slightly vaguer silhouette than it becomes. It resolves quite clearly into a (smoky) humanoid shape with a spiky crown, but I'll not say more than that. The on-screen appearance is not for a long time, since the story has to get from the Trees to the end of the First Age very quickly with not a lot of legal wiggle room. But it's clear to Silm readers what's going on, and the narration, while a very high-level summary, tells the viewing audience enough to go on.
That fact that the Silmarills are hardly mentioned confirms the legal side of things.

"Darn Morgoth for killing those trees. The Silmarils? What? What are you talking about?"
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
In a later scene, Celebrimbor talks about Fëanor creating the silmarils and Morgoth stealing them. They are described in a way that makes it clear they are (were) the pinnacle of elven craftsmanship. So, no, they can talk about that stuff. Not sure what they're allowed to show, though.
 

Makar

Member
So, no, they can talk about that stuff.
Yes, but the Silmarills were not mentioned as the reason for the elves going to Beleriand. The threes are.
So, they seems to have the rights to talk about and show the trees, but the Silmarils seems downplayed and just mentioned as (you rightly said) an example of the craftmanship of the elves. Not as an actor in the story, so to say.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
No, the silmarils are specifically mentioned as what Morgoth stole. I would not say they are 'downplayed' when they are explicitly said to have had the power to (almost) turn Morgoth from his evil ways! They simply came up later (Celebrimbor is not introduced right away).

They gave a very brief overview of the First Age in the opening monologue. I suspect a lot more detail and nuance to be added to it as the show goes on. For instance, the sinking of Galadriel's little toy swan ship seems pretty heavy foreshadowing of the Kinslaying/Burning of the Ships...but so far there has been no allusion to that. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just hasn't come up yet. So, yes, the destruction of the Trees is given as the first/primary reason for the war with Morgoth. Doesn't mean we're not going to find out about the death of Finwë or the theft of the silmarils. The fact that they're talking about Fëanor and have name-dropped him before Eärendil suggests to me that they're going to be talking about him more later.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Their short intro of the first age, trees, silmarils and Beleriand was pretty solid in my opinion...

I really didn't mind elven kids being jerks or brawling.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
It meant they didn’t need a title crawl, extensive voiceover or history lesson exposition to get us up to speed. Just a few lines that is relevant to our primary protagonist rather than an entire summary of the world. We get later understanding, that some Men sided with Morgoth for example, through later context. We get the story without needing to know all the details. Just what is necessary to move forward
 

Makar

Member
No, the silmarils are specifically mentioned as what Morgoth stole.
Yes, but it is because the trees were killed they go to war with him. But, as we do not know what is planned with the Sllmarils in the future (and we do not know what they can do with them legallty), it is hard to be too absolute on this topic.
 

David_M_R

Active Member
And for those who've seen episode 4 (I think it is), you have Pharazôn publicly claiming Elros lead the army that defeated Morgoth. So the show, intentionally or otherwise, is definitely playing the 'some say...' card.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I don't know...
The show is very inconsistent in everything, contradicting in one episode whatever we saw in the episode before. I have honstely tried to start discussions on the show at several different places, i have lost most interest talking about it all at the moment.
 

Octoburn

Active Member
And for those who've seen episode 4 (I think it is), you have Pharazôn publicly claiming Elros lead the army that defeated Morgoth. So the show, intentionally or otherwise, is definitely playing the 'some say...' card.
I like this approach, personally. His saying that men defeated Morgoth, Miriel saying that they weren't given Numenor, but earned it, play into establishing that Numenor is falling away from the Elves and Valar.
 

David_M_R

Active Member
I don't know...
The show is very inconsistent in everything, contradicting in one episode whatever we saw in the episode before. I have honstely tried to start discussions on the show at several different places, i have lost most interest talking about it all at the moment.
I've disengaged in discussing the show in some forums (Reddit, Discord), because I want to experience the show on my own terms, keeping my discussion to a few people I know reasonably well either IRL or online. I really like this December 2001 quote from Christopher Tolkien, before the public had seen Jackson's films:

Reports suggested that Christopher Tolkien was so unhappy about how the films of the trilogy had been made that he had fallen out with family members. But in a statement issued Friday, Tolkien said while he had doubts about the viability of the projects, these were personal opinions.
Tolkien said his position is that "The Lord Of The Rings" is unsuitable for transformation into visual dramatic form. "On the other hand, I recognize that this is a debatable and complex question of art, and the suggestions that have been made that I 'disapprove' of the films, whatever their cinematic quality, even to the extent of thinking ill of those with whom I may differ, are wholly without foundation," he said [emphasis added]
and I think that the McKay and Payne show also falls under the "debatable and complex question of art", and that opinions are going to be very personal either way.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
and I think that the McKay and Payne show also falls under the "debatable and complex question of art", and that opinions are going to be very personal either way.
Still logical inconsistencies in a movie's plot - to an extent that "anything goes" - a perceived randomness - are imho beyond a question of "mere art".
 
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