Makar
Member
Oh, i just heard about it on The Prancing Pony Podcast, so i guessed it was an early showing of a trailer. They do EXPLICITY say that it was Morgoths shadow, but they may have gotten it wrong.
Anyways, thanks for clearing this up
Amazon series: reactions to news and rumours. (Spoiler alert!)
- Thread starter Haakon
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Anyways, thanks for clearing this up
Rob Harding
Well-Known Member
There's quite obviously an imposing shadowy figure formed in the smoke and ash of the crumbling tree. It's very much Morgoth as his name is said as the shape appears.
But it is mysterious and moody and probably means they can nail down a character design at a later date if needs be.
But it is mysterious and moody and probably means they can nail down a character design at a later date if needs be.
Eryn Lasgalen
Member
Nice shot, Haerangil!
Still, the clip was so brief I can’t help but think there’s more to come.
That still shows a slightly vaguer silhouette than it becomes. It resolves quite clearly into a (smoky) humanoid shape with a spiky crown, but I'll not say more than that. The on-screen appearance is not for a long time, since the story has to get from the Trees to the end of the First Age very quickly with not a lot of legal wiggle room. But it's clear to Silm readers what's going on, and the narration, while a very high-level summary, tells the viewing audience enough to go on.
Makar
Member
That fact that the Silmarills are hardly mentioned confirms the legal side of things.
"Darn Morgoth for killing those trees. The Silmarils? What? What are you talking about?"
In a later scene, Celebrimbor talks about Fëanor creating the silmarils and Morgoth stealing them. They are described in a way that makes it clear they are (were) the pinnacle of elven craftsmanship. So, no, they can talk about that stuff. Not sure what they're allowed to show, though.
Makar
Member
Yes, but the Silmarills were not mentioned as the reason for the elves going to Beleriand. The threes are.
So, they seems to have the rights to talk about and show the trees, but the Silmarils seems downplayed and just mentioned as (you rightly said) an example of the craftmanship of the elves. Not as an actor in the story, so to say.
No, the silmarils are specifically mentioned as what Morgoth stole. I would not say they are 'downplayed' when they are explicitly said to have had the power to (almost) turn Morgoth from his evil ways! They simply came up later (Celebrimbor is not introduced right away).
They gave a very brief overview of the First Age in the opening monologue. I suspect a lot more detail and nuance to be added to it as the show goes on. For instance, the sinking of Galadriel's little toy swan ship seems pretty heavy foreshadowing of the Kinslaying/Burning of the Ships...but so far there has been no allusion to that. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just hasn't come up yet. So, yes, the destruction of the Trees is given as the first/primary reason for the war with Morgoth. Doesn't mean we're not going to find out about the death of Finwë or the theft of the silmarils. The fact that they're talking about Fëanor and have name-dropped him before Eärendil suggests to me that they're going to be talking about him more later.
They gave a very brief overview of the First Age in the opening monologue. I suspect a lot more detail and nuance to be added to it as the show goes on. For instance, the sinking of Galadriel's little toy swan ship seems pretty heavy foreshadowing of the Kinslaying/Burning of the Ships...but so far there has been no allusion to that. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just hasn't come up yet. So, yes, the destruction of the Trees is given as the first/primary reason for the war with Morgoth. Doesn't mean we're not going to find out about the death of Finwë or the theft of the silmarils. The fact that they're talking about Fëanor and have name-dropped him before Eärendil suggests to me that they're going to be talking about him more later.
Rob Harding
Well-Known Member
It meant they didn’t need a title crawl, extensive voiceover or history lesson exposition to get us up to speed. Just a few lines that is relevant to our primary protagonist rather than an entire summary of the world. We get later understanding, that some Men sided with Morgoth for example, through later context. We get the story without needing to know all the details. Just what is necessary to move forward
Makar
Member
Yes, but it is because the trees were killed they go to war with him. But, as we do not know what is planned with the Sllmarils in the future (and we do not know what they can do with them legallty), it is hard to be too absolute on this topic.
Haerangil
Well-Known Member
I don't know...
The show is very inconsistent in everything, contradicting in one episode whatever we saw in the episode before. I have honstely tried to start discussions on the show at several different places, i have lost most interest talking about it all at the moment.
The show is very inconsistent in everything, contradicting in one episode whatever we saw in the episode before. I have honstely tried to start discussions on the show at several different places, i have lost most interest talking about it all at the moment.
Octoburn
Active Member
I like this approach, personally. His saying that men defeated Morgoth, Miriel saying that they weren't given Numenor, but earned it, play into establishing that Numenor is falling away from the Elves and Valar.
I've disengaged in discussing the show in some forums (Reddit, Discord), because I want to experience the show on my own terms, keeping my discussion to a few people I know reasonably well either IRL or online. I really like this December 2001 quote from Christopher Tolkien, before the public had seen Jackson's films:
and I think that the McKay and Payne show also falls under the "debatable and complex question of art", and that opinions are going to be very personal either way.
Odola
Well-Known Member
Still logical inconsistencies in a movie's plot - to an extent that "anything goes" - a perceived randomness - are imho beyond a question of "mere art".