Blue collar Elves

Oakfen Ripsaw

Oakfen Ripsaw

New Member
Let me begin by saying I've watched and highly anticipate every episode of Professor Olsen's Exploring the Lord of the Rings series on YouTube.

All my life I've been a blue collar worker and thank you Professor for seeing the working Elves in that light :eek:)

And this reminds me of a line by EE Doc Smith in his Lensman series when talking about command and the rank and file, "Ve can't all be der First Violiners. Somebody got to push air t'ru der Trombones!"
 
I also was thinking about this (missed the live session, caught the replay this afternoon).

Here's how I can imagine Elf society functioning. I haven't thought all the way through it - this typing is my first attempt at putting my idea together.

I think that Elves don't have ambition. And that's not a bad thing for them - it's the way they are. Or, rather, they have a different sort of ambition. Elves all have an instinctive knowledge of their role in society, and are happiest when fulfilling that role. They want to do the very best they can at fulfilling their role, but they do NOT long to change to a "better" role and start fulfilling that one instead.

For some Elves, that's leadership, planning, making decisions. For some Elves, that's gardening and harvesting and planting. For some Elves that's building chairs, houses, barrels. For some Elves, that's sweeping floors and washing windows.

The floor sweeper doesn't want to "move up" to being a merchant or a bureaucrat, they want to be the best darn floor sweeper that ever swept a floor, even after five thousand years of sweeping floors. That is an admirable trait for any Elf, and is pretty much universal (for their varied roles) among them.

(I'm a bit uncomfortable with the whole notion, as it kind of smacks of fooling your servants into wanting to be servants, even though that's absolutely not what's happening - it's just my human bias.)
 
I am fascinated by this entire elven social structure as well and did not give it thought prior to the episode. Everything about the elves definitely seems to be in a different air when compared to the other races. In my mind the elf sweeping Elrond's floor is not as socially distant to Elrond as the man that is sweeping the Steward of Gondor's floor. I also like to imagine that the elven floor sweeper is a renowned and sought after storytelling vocalist at nights.

I wonder if the elven social disparities vary from realm to realm.

I mean, they are all immortal, but can die? and/or choose to abandon said immortality, so, how does immortality play into their ambition or agendas?

Are they all socially the same anyway once they sail West? Are the Elves in Middle Earth holding on to their social status as long as they possibly can?

I agree with Amysrevenge that they have a different kind of ambition (see Feanor at least) and I love how the word "ambition" relates to the social ladder. I had never thought of that connection prior to your post. Very cool. Thank you!

There have been elves excommunicated and/or exiled, likely losing their social status (whatever that may mean) in the process, correct?
 
I have the impression that elves are not entirely feudalist... they do have chieftains, nobles and kings, and some families seem to be in higher rank than others... but it is still more of a meritocracy than an inheritable monarchy in many ways... even if they pretty quickly adapted some moments of that.

They seem to organise themselves in various interest groups, families, clans, tribes, guilds, fraternities, houses... and in a way their nobility is just one such organisation. To some degree they are all nobles 7n their way, even if they seem to have different classes, these classes are not that much higher or lesser classes as in human society.
 
amysrevenge said:
(I'm a bit uncomfortable with the whole notion, as it kind of smacks of fooling your servants into wanting to be servants, even though that's absolutely not what's happening - it's just my human bias.)
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I wouldn't say it's just human bias. The entire concept of social classes and "one's place" is also human bias (along with everything else attribute to Elven behavior), although one that's depicted as perfectly alright in Middle-earth as long as servants are treated with dignity.

I haven't been able to hear the podcasts, so I can only comment on my own opinion and on "Laws and Customs of the Eldar." I imagine Elves do vary their interests somewhat over their lifetimes, though not really out of boredom (except in the case of Noldor?). I also think a lot of them are what we might call polymaths. The guy sweeping floors is probably also a talented interior decorator, singer, calligraphist, arborist, and cobbler, and will manage to do all of that, including sweeping, in an artistic way. (I don't know what artistic floor-sweeping looks like, but an Elf would. :) )

I also imagine that, for the especially back-breaking and unpleasant physical labor, Elves aren't likely to relegate specific individuals to being stuck doing just that for millennia, while others live in more luxury. Not just because that doesn't seem right to me and Elves seem more likely to cooperate and share the most difficult labor. But also because I think Elves can do many things more efficiently and effortlessly than Mortals. They're tougher, stronger, more dextrous, need less sleep, and seem to have everyday "magic" for lack of a better word. Consider farming: humans without industrial machinery have to put back-breaking labor into tilling, planting, weeding, irrigating, and harvesting. Elves no doubt figured out how to farm without tillage (which is more sustainable as well) and can probably make their plants grow better and with fewer weeds just by singing to them. Maybe they can sing the fruit down from the trees instead of climbing up to pick it? An Elven farmer may be what you mean by blue-collar, but they don't have to work as hard as pre-industrial human farmers, and their products are better than ours, too.

Where I agree more with amysrevenge is that in a culture where servants are treated with the dignity and love they deserve, they won't be so likely to hanker for a promotion, even after 948 years. If being a waiter or cleaner/interior decorator is fun.
 
I somehow always imagined that when Feanor was about to build Formenos, he took off his tunic and started carrying and putting up bricks just like the next elf...
 
Haerangil said:
I somehow always imagined that when Feanor was about to build Formenos, he took off his tunic and started carrying and putting up bricks just like the next elf...
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Oh, not "just like the next Elf"…my bet is that Fëanor wanted to be the best bricklayer ever in the history of Arda, and likely succeeded. :cool:

I don't recall exactly how long it took to construct Formenos but I'll also bet it was gorgeous in its own way.
 
I think it was in the class chat that I mentioned this, but it is useful to consider the function of the three Rings of Power made for the elves. Their primary task was to keep things unchanging, like them. That power is what Galadriel wields in Lothlorien and maintains its permanence:

‘Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.’
Frodo bent his head. ‘And what do you wish?’ he said at last.
‘That what should be shall be,’ she answered. ‘The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the Sea, and their regret is undying and cannot ever wholly be assuaged.’​

To think in terms of one’s place in society, relative to a social order that conceives of things in terms of hierarchy and social mobility, appears to be an alien idea to the elves. They delight in the making of things (like the rope makers who Sam Gamgee misses out on talking to) that become magical.

If, then, we think of Elves as subcreators — and that the value they derive from their society is the result of their subcreation — they all have the potential to be “rich”, in the way humans (who value money and power) strive to be rich. Such an approach has the added benefit of explaining why the request to destroy the Simarils to recreate the Two Trees is such a tremendous ask for Feanor. It isn’t just the request to give up some pretty gems. It is the request for him to surrender the greatest portion of his wealth that he has and ever will have (leaving him destitute with no hope of regaining his wealth) and give it to others so that they can be wealthy.
 
Yes, all Elves are artists and subcreators. An Elf who makes chairs, or bowls, or tools, is also making fine art just as much as the painter, jeweler, or sculptor. Everything they make would be beautiful and well-appreciated, even if not 'magical.' I hadn't thought of that as wealth, but you're right, it is.


I was thinking of the difference between a human custodian and an elvish custodian. Today in Western cultures, or at least in the U.S., being a custodian doesn't look like a fun job. Custodians aren't highly respected or well-paid, they do smelly manual labor cleaning toilets and picking up other peoples' messes, including garbage selfishly thrown in the street, food carelessly or clumsily slopped on the floor, and profanity drawn on the walls. They use harsh, toxic cleaning chemicals because their bosses order them to, and they don't get to disagree because their job is unskilled and they're easily replaced.

But I imagine life is pretty different for an elvish custodian, or floor-sweeper. Elves wouldn't litter, and in my mind even elvish toddlers don't spill very much food on the floor. Even their toilets probably aren't as bad. Instead of being a put-upon servant who cleans up others' messes all the time, I imagine custodians as the interior decorators. Part of their job is to clean up dust or spills or cobwebs, but a lot of would be making every room and patio fabulous. I know someone who decorates at weddings and events for a living, and the inside of her home is simply amazing. She clearly spends considerable spare time decorating with the prettiest items she can buy or make, and every square inch looks wonderful. I imagine elvish custodians being like her, filling rooms with art that they or others subcreate, arranging things harmoniously and beautifully, decorating for festivals and weddings, and just having a ball doing it. Maybe they also paint the walls and carve the wooden pillars and beams.

Or in a Sylvan culture, maybe the custodian-equivalent is a gardener.
 
On a more elevated note, our discussions of the tra-la-la-lally phenomenon lead me to think of elves as a people who are very good at mindfulness, and appreciating the beauty in every moment of life, whether that is the beauty of a gorgeous sunset, the radiance of a star, or the beauty of a thing made or maintained well by craft and skill.
 
Don't know... the roots of the elvish words for urine (mis, piglin) or defecate (muku, mukta) or dung (muko, gorn +) don't give any hints towards stench...
 
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