Caranthir

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
The execs want someone who looks great, not necessarily physically large, like a quarterback or something, but someone who talks with a sneer and (as I understand it) picks fights being arrogant; someone who has been in fights and isn't afraid of taking a punch or two. He isn't the best fighter, but reasonably good.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
The execs want someone who looks great, not necessarily physically large, like a quarterback or something, but someone who talks with a sneer and (as I understand it) picks fights being arrogant; someone who has been in fights and isn't afraid of taking a punch or two. He isn't the best fighter, but reasonably good.
For future reference, Haakon, a quarterback is not typically very large and one of the smaller members of the team. :) A quarterback might actually be exactly what they are looking for.

I just want to point out that this may be the first time I have ever made a sports knowledge correction. :)
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
For future reference, Haakon, a quarterback is not typically very large and one of the smaller members of the team. :) A quarterback might actually be exactly what they are looking for.

I just want to point out that this may be the first time I have ever made a sports knowledge correction. :)
Well, what type of quarterback are we talking about here? Russell Wilson (5’11”, 215 lbs)? Tom Brady (6’4”, 225 lbs approx)? Cam Newton (6’5”, 245 lbs)?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Well, what type of quarterback are we talking about here? Russell Wilson (5’11”, 215 lbs)? Tom Brady (6’4”, 225 lbs approx)? Cam Newton (6’5”, 245 lbs)?
I easily outweigh Wilson and Brady. Brady might be a little tall but both him and Wilson have about the body type they are looking for.

By the way, the thing about quarterbacks being on the smaller side is why the joke between 2 min and 2:30 of this video is funny.


The massive lineman deliberately steps out of the way to let the defensive tackle through, knowing that the quarterback intends to do this (it is basically a retaliation for the tackle injuring their starting quarterback earlier in the video).
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Ok why did I have to make a sports reference? And especially American football, which I have marginally greater than zero knowledge of... Well, I tip my European hat and thank you for the enlightening correction...
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Ok why did I have to make a sports reference? And especially American football, which I have marginally greater than zero knowledge of... Well, I tip my European hat and thank you for the enlightening correction...
Most people who know me would be shocked that I even knew this.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
So if we’re comparing Caranthir to the size of an NFL quarterback, what size are we looking for? Offhand, I myself have a working knowledge of football, having grown up watching the NY Giants.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Someone who looks like he'd be physically confident in a bar brawl is all we need here. Some not-so-burly guys come across that tough, easily.

This is *not* a suggestion for Caranthir, but Norman Reedus (50 years old, 5'10"), who plays Daryl Dixon on the Walking Dead and Murphy McManus in Boondock Saints (also, randomly, biker!Judas in a Lady Gaga video) definitely has that vibe. I'm tough, don't mess with me. He's not physically a complete bruiser, but what we're looking for in Caranthir is a decently big guy who has that vibe going for him.

Scrappy, can throw down, not afraid of a fight. Nothing hesitant about him. And that's...almost entirely all acting, not a physical attribute. So, my suggestion would be to find a clip of whoever you want to nominate for Caranthir being a sneering badass, and just let that speak for itself, regardless of exact build. Not too small and not wimpy looking, obviously, but 'toughness' is a little tougher to define.
 
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Haakon

Administrator
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I think that we’ve moved on from Momoa. We’re not looking for a person of that size and build. He’s too big. He could be Rhogrin!
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I think that we’ve moved on from Momoa. We’re not looking for a person of that size and build. He’s too big. He could be Rhogrin!
I thought we were looking for a bigger, tougher actor, since the Hosts didn’t cast Caranthir last season because the nominees didn’t look tough enough.
But you’re right, he could be Rhogrin.
 

MithLuin

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Staff member
Right - the nominees last season didn't look tough enough. The Hosts vetoed them as too wimpy to back up Caranthir's 'fighting words'.

'More physically imposing' doesn't necessarily leapfrog you all the way to 'cast Jason Mamoa', though. He's very physically imposing, it's true, but we're not looking for someone whose a better fighter than Maedhros (Armie Hammer) or Celegorm (Sam Claflin), even. Just tough and sneering and doesn't look like he'd get knocked down in a breeze, that's all.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Well youm now guys... i'm not at all into american football and stuff, but.. for what i have seen, not every Quarterback is "the hulk", you know, many Quarterbacks are quite athletic in comparison..

Talk about good fighters... what about Bruce lee actually?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Well youm now guys... i'm not at all into american football and stuff, but.. for what i have seen, not every Quarterback is "the hulk", you know, many Quarterbacks are quite athletic in comparison..

Talk about good fighters... what about Bruce lee actually?
That is more or less what I was saying.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
If 'bar fight' isn't giving any ideas, 'prison fight' is probably just as good.

Granted, some prison scenes are meant to be more comedic and less gritty. "Jailhouse Rock" from Blues Brothers for example is a dance party, not a prison riot. Most of these guys are musicians and look it :p

This scene from the "Folsom Prison Blues" episode of Supernatural is mostly comedic, but they definitely cast Lucas and Tiny to be big burly guys for effect. I would not describe either of these actors as 'elven', though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX-CECPhg_g

This scene from Shawshank Redemption is the opposite of comedic (implied prison rape). The guys aren't unusually big or burly, they're just moderately strong but able to gang up on a guy.

The 'danger' vibe is definitely there with the three gangbangers in Training Day. One of those guys is pretty ripped (in an obvious abuse of steroids kinda way), but all three of them have a very definite 'do not mess with me' vibe going on. Warning for language and violence and discussion of rape.

Edward Norton certainly put on a lot of muscle mass for his role in American History X. [This particular scene is fairly innocuous, but still needs a language warning.] Worth pointing out that even bulked up, he's not a particularly big guy. Again, they certainly cast some big burly guys to fill out this prison population to make everyone else look more dangerous than the swastika-tattooed skinhead murderer protagonist.

Jet Li's prison escape in the incorrectly named Romeo Must Die. At least one of the guys he takes on is huge, but for the most part he's just precise and clever.


So, yeah, I'm fine with the 'Bruce Lee' suggestion - a guy of moderate build with some really compact muscle mass who looks like he knows how to use it and isn't afraid of a fight. Just, you know, taller than actual Bruce Lee. Typical elven build, but ripped.

[Ugh, it's tough when my knowledge of films/actors isn't recent. The 'kid brother' in American History X is now 41 years old, and he's the same actor who played young John Connor in Terminator 2. ]
 
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Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I’m not sure we have to find movie scenes to avoid ruling out actors. It seems hard enough to find a Caranthir. I spent some time on Google and unless you remember an exact scene, you’re pretty lost and it will take hours to (maybe) find a suitable actor fighting. I’m not saying we shouldn’t look, I’m just saying that perhaps it’ll do with a picture showing someone who potentially could be ‘badass’.
Btw, I found out that one of the actors @MithLuin has talked about - Jared Padalecki - has actually been in a bar fight - so maybe he is an alternative
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
True, a picture is fine. I suggested the idea of a clip specifically so we wouldn't have to rule out a less muscley actor who still has the right 'I will fight you' vibe. Norman Reedus was a Prada model turned actor, and he's not particularly tall or built or anything. ... and yet he has been cast in multiple roles as a badass fighter type.


Jared Padalecki has been in a bar fight, true. He and Jensen Ackles 'got jumped by eight guys' (according to them). He has also been in drunken wrestling matches with his costars in hotel rooms. And he can sneer.... let me go find some clips later. He is basically as tall as Maedhros, though.

Story: Jared, Jensen, and Misha wrestling in a hotel room in Toronto after drinking too much at dinner.

Story: Jared Padalecki and Osric Chau wrestling in the green room in a hotel in Rome because they were bored.


Hmmm, Sam Winchester doesn't do a lot of sneering. Here's a few clips, though.


Some of these clips are just him being 'annoyed' or 'insulting', but a few of them definitely encroach into sneering/pompous/condescending territory.
 
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