Eol

He would probably be alone in having parents from two different groups, and this would add to his loner status.
 
No that's about right - it seems like with Elves, you fit whatever... clan? Subspecies? I realize now that I have no idea what the name of the category is... of your dad, but you're still kin with the relatives of your mom. So a Noldo Eol could still be kin to Thingol and Olwe and have had kin at Alqualonde.

ETA: Oops, this was a reply to Marielle

Marielle said:
Like how Galadriel is a Noldo, but is still welcome at Doriath because of her mother's kin? Or am I confusing this somehow?
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And by "fit" I don't just mean "you are listed among them in the rolls". I mean that Galadriel, by blood just 1/4 Noldor, is a Noldo, as far as lining up with the broad traits of that group.
 
Uh do they have some kind of hang up on dads or would it be the same if Galadriel was 1/4 Noldor on her mother's side? Just wondering...
 
As one of the Avari, Eöl is technically neither Noldo nor Teleri.

Which is why it's more helpful to refer to the three groups at Cuivienen as something other than Vanyar/Noldor/Teleri - they're Minyar/Tatyar/Nelyar. Only after the Debate do they split into Vanyar, leaving Tatyar (Noldor), staying Tatyar (Avari), leaving Nelyar (Teleri) and staying Nelyar (also Avari).
(If anyone needs an elvish migration refresher: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Three_Kindreds )

So we have decided that Eöl is Avari, and thus his name 'the Dark Elf' will refer to that. However, as an elf of Cuivienen himself (rather than a descendent of Avari elves), he is directly related to elves among the Noldor and/or Teleri. We did not establish which in Season 2, but we do have the opportunity to clarify his kinship in Season 3, should we wish to. Certainly, his attitudes (towards dwarves, craftsmanship, family pride, etc) make him seem more akin to the Noldor. Curufin and Celegorm are furious with him for marrying their half-cousin Aredhel, and offer him plenty of insults and threats on account of that. So, having him be a half-breed Tatyar/Nelyar Avari would fit as someone the Sons of Fëanor could speak scornfully of (not that they need much excuse!), and his equal hatred for them being kinslayers can be in play. I think we can work with that.


As far as what we have of him so far...here is his role in Season 2 Episode 3 Act 3:

Eöl says his piece: He starts off calm but as he goes on he works himself up into anger. He says the Quendi are meant to be out in the woods of the world. He calls Valinor a cage and accuses the Valar of not caring and wanting slaves. Worse, they will keep us as pets! Míriel tries to calm him, but that only riles him more. He is done with the lot of them and will leave. His parting shot as he storms away in fury is a warning that this will end in blood. He notices a large bat as he leaves.​
 
ruth barratt said:
The elfs that are left in middle earth are going to need weapons for orc fighting are they not?
Could we use Eol as the main chap in arming them?
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Eol seems like too much of a loner for this. While he does provide Thingol with quality weapons as tribute, he is only one individual. Thingol seems to get the bulk of his metal armor and weapons through trade with the dwarves when they arrive.
 
MithLuin said:
So we have decided that Eöl is Avari, and thus his name 'the Dark Elf' will refer to that. However, as an elf of Cuivienen himself (rather than a descendent of Avari elves), he is directly related to elves among the Noldor and/or Teleri. We did not establish which in Season 2, but we do have the opportunity to clarify his kinship in Season 3, should we wish to. Certainly, his attitudes (towards dwarves, craftsmanship, family pride, etc) make him seem more akin to the Noldor. Curufin and Celegorm are furious with him for marrying their half-cousin Aredhel, and offer him plenty of insults and threats on account of that. So, having him be a half-breed Tatyar/Nelyar Avari would fit as someone the Sons of Fëanor could speak scornfully of (not that they need much excuse!), and his equal hatred for them being kinslayers can be in play. I think we can work with that.


As far as what we have of him so far...here is his role in Season 2 Episode 3 Act 3:

Eöl says his piece: He starts off calm but as he goes on he works himself up into anger. He says the Quendi are meant to be out in the woods of the world. He calls Valinor a cage and accuses the Valar of not caring and wanting slaves. Worse, they will keep us as pets! Míriel tries to calm him, but that only riles him
more. He is done with the lot of them and will leave. His parting shot as he storms away in fury is a warning that this will end in blood. He notices a large bat as he leaves.
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This is all perfect I think. Thanks for the clarity on categories - I am a HUGE fan of exactly this sort of pedantry during these planning stages; an ounce of pedantry in planning is worth a pound of something something my pithy saying is running out of steam...
 
Would it be too much to have Eol be the brother or cousin of someone we know among the Noldor? Maybe Mahtan, as the first Noldor outside the family of Finwe that I can name...
 
Haakon said:
Uh do they have some kind of hang up on dads or would it be the same if Galadriel was 1/4 Noldor on her mother's side? Just wondering...
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The implication is that she was raised in a Noldor household, had Noldor teachers, and thus has a Noldor mindset. Her frequent contact with her mother's kin apparently isn't enough to counteract this. Ie, Galadriel grew up in Tirion.

My mother's family is from Western Pennsylvania. Her brother moved to Boston, married, and raised a family. All of his children speak with a typical Boston accent (their cat's name was 'Mahvin'). So, they speak like their mother, friends, everyone they grew up around, and think their dad's side of the family speaks funny :p.
 
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amysrevenge said:
Would it be too much to have Eol be the brother or cousin of someone we know among the Noldor? Maybe Mahtan, as the first Noldor outside the family of Finwe that I can name...
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Non-Finwëan Noldor: Míriel, Mahtan (and his daughter Nerdanel), Rúmil, parents of the wives of other Noldor :p (Fingolfin's wife Anairë's parents, for example). We will have Míriel's sister Tatië and their parents stay with the Avari.

Having Eöl be distantly related to the Noldor would be interesting, though we'd have to be a little careful....he can't identify as Noldor at all.
 
MithLuin said:
Having Eöl be distantly related to the Noldor would be interesting, though we'd have to be a little careful....he can't identify as Noldor at all.
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No, he's all Avari.

And you're right, he should identify with his lost kin in Alqualonde, but shouldn't identify with any kin among the Noldor.
 
But if he was some sort of kin to Miriel or Mahtan, and thus to the sons of Feanor (but importantly, I suppose, not to the house of Fingolfin), that could be... interesting.
 
Honestly, he could be related to Aredhel (almost) as directly as we like and it wouldn't be an impediment to marriage*. Elves can marry their second cousins. But yes, I see the point, if he were kin to the sons of Fëanor, but no one was willing to acknowledge that...well then, that would be an interesting dynamic (if the viewers ever figured that out).

[*First cousins is incest, so Maeglin can't marry Idril. Half-first cousins is *not* incest, so Celegorm could have married Aredhel. Just....FYI.]
 
I wasn't only thinking about the incest angle, but rather that the only Noldor he'd be related to in that case would be the... bad... ones.

ETA: Depending on his outlook, being related to the Feanorians could make him *more* outraged about the Kinslaying, not less.
 
Haha I've always loved Maglor so much, I have to read certain passages of the PubSil while squinting and pretending it's about someone else...
 
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