Frame Narrative

So we have three episodes of frame to create. I don't think we have to move on very fast. Still, something must happen. What needs to be achieved? At what point do we want to leave Arwen?
It seems we're heading for a family union in Lothlorien. Arwen has come to the conclusion that she has some purpose to fulfill in Middle-earth, though she doesn't know what that could be. It involves fighting against the forces of Sauron in some way. She has of course not chosen to be mortal, but her longing for Valinor and her mother has been replaced by a more mature feeling of having a life path of her own. This is in harmony with how her grandparents feel, since both Galadriel and Celeborn have at one point chosen Middle-earth. Perhaps they hope to leave for the West some day (at least Galadriel certainly does) but so does Arwen at this point.
So the end of the frame would end in much greater peace and harmony than the main story. I think that contrast would be interesting. It is also perhaps necessary and makes the tragedy of the past clearer. It would be a fitting end scene in episode 13.

For episodes 11 and 12 should then be a transition between 'Arwen knows that Galadriel wants to return to Valinor someday, but does not know why she left in the first place /.../Galadriel-in-the-Frame reacts to the opinions expressed by Galadriel-in-the-Main-Story. The message is a mix between you-don't-know-what-you-have-til-it's-gone and wisdom-means-being-able-to-change-your-mind' and the situation at the end. This actually forces us to clearify the end and add an element of grief. Because if we are going to deal with the losses told in the main story (although they are of course not all of Galadriel's losses) we need to let them affect the characters in the frame. So, there is a sombination of acceptance and grief in the final scenes of the frame.
We should of course add some actions to these processes so that they're not entirely internal.

To sum it up, I suggest:

Episode 11 (Formenos): Since this is supposed to be an episode that only takes place in Formenos, we could skip the frame in this episode. Or we could have Galadriel just explain that her cousins were gone and that she guesses something happened to them while they were there; they became more militarized and estranged; she might say that perhaps this was the time when she started to lose them, even if she didn't feel that at the time.
Episode 12 (Feast of Reuniting): Galadriel must remember the Feast with some grief. This was the last moment of some kind of happiness. We could have her and Arwen talk by a beautiful mallorn of Lothlorien, of course. In that case, Galadriel would have to compare it unfavourably to the Trees of Valinor, at least to some extent.
Episode 13 (Darkening of Valinor): Arwen should express her view that Elves have a purpose in Middle-earth.

(Work in progress)
 
Episodes 7 and 8 will also need Frame.

I do not think we want to skip the Frame altogether in any episode, though I suppose that is always a possibility. Keep in mind that Season 2 is not based on the premise of people telling the stories that we see on screen. They are....talking about topics that touch on the events of the past in some way, but we're not framing this as 'storytelling' past episodes 1 and 2.
 
Episodes 7 and 8 will also need Frame.
Ah yes I forgot about those episodes...

For episode 7, I would suggest showing Arwen being on her own, remembering her friend and her mother. She should avoid her grandparents for a while, but could watch them from a distance. We could see the kind of love there is between Galadriel and Celeborn, ages old, as a contrast to the young passion of Fëanor and Nerdanel.
Episode 8.... I'll have to think a little.... ;)
 
I'd love to see day-to-day with G and C. Their everyday rituals are like a dance, where they move in a rhythm with each other without deliberate intent, and smile.
 
Maybe if there isn't that much time for the frame we could have scenes with Galadriel and Celeborn and their love in episode 7, and show Arwen alone in season 8?
 
I was thinking about it, and it seems like there's a tricky turn in the plot where the frame is harder to match up. For the first half of the plot, basically up until Feanor draws his sword, it is easy enough to show some sort of analagous situation in the frame to vaguely line up with what's going on in the plot, and just switch between them. But once the unrest starts, and especially for the Darkening and beyond, there's really no analagous situation going on with the frame - it's a peaceful time, and even the choices and conflicts within the frame that we know of are not urgent or pressing.

Looking at it from that perspective... The worst things to happen in the plot are the Darkening and the death of Finwe. The worst thing available to us in the frame is what happened in the past to Celebrian. Now, I was under the impression that we don't really want to dwell on the details of that captivity, more on the aftermath. So it's hard to switch from anywhere in the frame to the worst part of the plot naturally, the way we can where something analagous is happening in both. So does that mean all we're left with is a resort to overt storytelling in the frame again post-Darkening?
 
We had to abandon the idea that we could create events in the frame that would parallel the main story, I believe. I think showing Arwen and the Mirror is powerful and works well together with the episode, and I think showing the grief of Galadriel could work well for the episode on the Feast. My idea for the Formenos episode doesn't make a lot of screen time but I think we really want to focus on Valinor at this stage of the season.
 
That idea is not abandoned, we are relying on it less for this season because of the limitations that placed on us for the particular story we were trying to tell. Basically it helps to think of the frame for season two as an iteration on the question "where do the elves belong". The questions is posed for the first time in the main narrative, and is grappled with by a familiar character from the published material. We should not be committed to only one style of frame narrative: doing so would immediately limit us from exploring a lot of fun different ways to go through the Silmarillion, and especially at the beginning of the project (which this most assuredly is) we need to be open to trying a lot of different things.
 
This is how far I got... basically it is a treatment of the Arwen character that is similar to what we did with Fingolfin. It gives her an arc. In the beginning she is more naive and views going to Valinor as an obviuos thing. The departure of her friend sets a process in motion that makes her question that and leads her to the understanding that she has a purpose in Middle-earth.

Episode 1: The Awakening of the Elves
Flashback of Celebrían being attacked by orcs. We meet Arwen and Celeborn. They discuss how the Shadow has always been there. Arwen hates and fears the orcs and misses her mother.

Episode 2: The Ambassadors in Valinor

Frame: (1) Arwen is preparing/dressing, with her confidant [?name]. It is on the eve of an Elvish festival celebrating starlight and she shares her anticipation and excitement for the festival to come, happy to share one last one together with [friend]. During a formal ceremony, Galadriel gives Arwen a starry cloak. Arwen gives Galadriel a tapestry she made showing Varda making the stars. A courtier remarks on the strangeness of the imagery. Galadriel and Arwen share an informal moment, where Galadriel reminds Arwen that Varda is not well-known in Lothlorien. Arwen understands that, and mentions that she doesn't know the Valar any better than the elves of Lothlorien, even if she is considered a High Elf herself. She asks Galadriel what Varda is like?
(2) Galadriel and Arwen discuss Varda's character, and why she is (essentially) the patroness of the elves. Arwen is clearly interested in Valinor. She is drawn to it and longs for her mother.

Episode 3: The Great Debate

Frame: (1) Arwen speaks with her friend, and it is revealed that she has made a decision that has upset Arwen. Arwen tries to talk her out of it, but is unsuccessful.
(2) Arwen is upset that her friend is leaving, but not only that, they are spending their last days together fighting. She talks to Celeborn, who reminds her that she is not responsible for her friend’s choices, and says something about how difficult it is when those we love choose a different path.
(3) Arwen speaks with her friend? Arwen doesn't want her friend to leave. This feeling makes her begin to reevaluate her position on the issue of staying or leaving ME. The departure of Celebrian and the imminent departure of her friend in combination changes her feelings and she begins to question her earlier thoughts on this, making her uncertain. She also begins to question her mother's choice.

Episode 4: The Great Journey

Frame: (1) Arwen's brothers Elladan and Elrohir arrive in Lothlorien.
(2) Arwen and her brothers discuss their family while looking at the Misty Mountains. Arwen expresses regret that their mother cannot be there with them.
(3) Flashback to the rescue of Celebrían from the den of the orcs at the hands of her brothers. Arwen realizes that you can't save everyone. Arwen has begun to question her earlier view, and talking to her brothers makes her realise that you just can't give in to fear but can fight, and even if the fight sometimes involves losing people you love, you should keep fighting.

Episode 5: The Forsaken (Círdan and Olwë)

Frame: (1) Arwen’s friend is preparing leave Middle Earth, taking advantage of the peacetime created by the Battle of Five Armies to journey to the Sea.
(2) Arwen’s friend says her final farewell. She expresses the hope that they will see one another in Valinor someday. Arwen does not respond in kind, but realizes this is a choice she will have to make for herself someday. Galadriel and Celeborn are present at this leave-taking, as silent reminders of that choice.
Arwen is saddened by her friend's departure. She thinks her friend leaves too soon. Thinking of how the Teleri were left behind and how Círdan was given a purpose makes her wonder if she has a purpose to fulfill in ME. She's not clear what this would be though and she feels uncertain about it.
Episode 6: Elvenhome
Frame: (1) Arwen and her brothers discuss her friend’s departure, and that leads to a conversation about their mother’s departure as well.
(2) Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen memorialize their mother. Arwen has come to accept that going into the West was the right thing for her mother to do, and that there was no healing for Celebrían here in Middle Earth. Arwen understands that besides the fact that Celebrian needed healing, she and Arwen are different people with different destinies. Her road to the West will look different.

Episode 7: Spirit of Fire
Frame: We see Arwen noticing the love of her grandparents.
Episode 8: Trial of Melkor
Frame: Arwen is alone, walking through Lothlorien or even outside of it, perhaps venturing out unseen. She could come upon some men, perhaps a village, so that we could get the secondborn into this episode which contrasts Valar and Eldar. her loneliness and perhaps alienation is different from Melkor's of course but they could be used in some kind of theme.

Episode 9: Silmarils
Frame: (1) Arwen explains to Galadriel that it's difficult for her to understand why someone would choose to go to Valinor when it's a place she's never seen. Hearing about how great and wonderful it is can be all well and good, but... Galadriel suggests there is a way for her to see Valinor and judge for herself what the greatest days of the Noldor looked like. As written but these are thoughs that have come to her recently. She has realised that her picture of the West is rather immature and sketchy, like out of a tale. (After this, I think we're on the same track)
(2) Galadriel shows Arwen her Mirror, and then we see a montage of noontide of Valinor, including the Trees, young Galadriel running around with some kids, Fëanor in his workshop, Oromë, a glimpse of Tol Eressëa (but without people).
(3) Arwen's reaction to what she has seen in the Mirror. 'The Trees were more lovely than I imagined,' but also it was a little bit...all the same? Galadriel recognizes that Arwen's heart is in Middle Earth.
Episode 10: Kinstrife
Frame: (1) Arwen knows that Galadriel wants to return to Valinor someday, but does not know why she left in the first place.
(2) Galadriel-in-the-Frame reacts to the opinions expressed by Galadriel-in-the-Main-Story. The message is a mix between you-don't-know-what-you-have-til-it's-gone and wisdom-means-being-able-to-change-your-mind.
Episode 11: Formenos

Frame: Since this is supposed to be an episode that only takes place in Formenos, we could skip the frame in this episode. Or we could have Galadriel just explain that her cousins were gone and that she guesses something happened to them while they were there; they became more militarized and estranged; she might say that perhaps this was the time when she started to lose them, even if she didn't feel that at the time.
Episode 12: Feast of Reuniting
Frame: Galadriel remembers the Feast with some grief. This was the last moment of some kind of happiness. We could have her and Arwen talk by a beautiful mallorn of Lothlorien, of course. In that case, Galadriel would have to compare it unfavourably to the Trees of Valinor, at least to some extent.
Episode 13: Darkening of Valinor ??? Obviously, this has to be the one where Arwen wraps up her story (so far). She has to make some sort of clear decision of 'choosing' Middle Earth, and not just temporarily. Probably should end with her and Celeborn (as that is how it started). Arwen is with Galadriel and Celeborn, they share a feeling of having a purpose in Middle-earth and the thought of Valinor is connected to sorrow or melancholia in all of them (in different ways). This is most clearly expressed by Arwen.
 
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Okay - an attempt to integrate some serious travel into this Frame. Please, comment on any suggestions for improvement!

Episode 1 (Awakening of the Elves) - Arwen remembers her mother being captured by orcs, and talks to Celeborn who tells her that fear and loss was always there, from the beginning. They discuss making decisions in the face of fear. Arwen is sad, but it is not explained why.

Episode 2 (The Ambassadors) - Arwen greets Galadriel for a festival of the stars in Lothlorien, but the festival is different from the one Arwen remembers from Rivendell - there is no reference to Elbereth in the songs of the elves of Lorien. Arwen discusses her surprise with Celeborn and Galadriel. Arwen's friend and companion is introduced, and she and Arwen spend time together during the festival.

Episode 3 (The Great Debate) - It is revealed that Arwen's friend has decided to leave Middle Earth. Arwen and her friend discuss the friend's reasons for leaving at this time, with mention of the safe roads that have opened up to the West. Arwen is heartbroken to leave her friend, and offers to travel with her (save this decision for later?).

Episode 4 (Teleri Migration Episode) - Arwen looks into the Mirror of Galadriel and witnesses the rescue of her mother by her brothers. She tells Celeborn that the knowledge doesn't help as much as she thought it would. Preparations are made for those elves leaving Lothlorien forever. The festival has now extended to a farewell.

Episode 5 (Círdan and Olwë; Arrival of Noldor/Vanyar in Valinor)- Arwen's brothers Elladan and Elrohir come to visit, and they insist upon accompanying their sister on her journey. They mention the dangers that still lurk in the Wild, with specific reference to the Men of Anduin who have reported a monster stealing food and babies. Arwen insists on helping those who are afflicted.

Episode 6 (Elvenhome) - On their journey, Arwen and her brothers discuss Celebrían's lingering sickness and decision to depart Middle Earth (in parallel to Míriel fading after the birth of Fëanor). Flashback of Elrond treating the wounded Celebrían in Rivendell. (*something something real time of interest on the journey* = crossing the Misty Mountains?)

Episode 7 (Spirit of Fire) - Journey through Eregion. Talk of loss and destruction from the last time Sauron was there; why the elves flee to the West. It is revealed that Celebrían did not die, but decided to go into the West.

Episode 8 (Trial of Melkor) - The land of the Shire. Everything seems happy and peaceful here - Arwen asks her friend if she's content to leave this all behind. Changefulness of mortal lands.

Episode 9 (The Silmarils) - The palantir in the Tower Hills. Arwen looks into it, in hopes of glimpsing the current home of her mother on Tol Eressëa. Conversation between Celebrían, Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen?

Episode 10 (Kinstrife) - Arrival at the Grey Havens. Arwen meets Círdan, and it is remarked that this is her first view of the Sea. Farewell to the elves from Lothlorien who are boarding a ship, including Arwen's friend.

Episode 11 (Banishment) - Return journey with a much smaller entourage. Arwen is sad to have said goodbye, but is glad her brothers are with her on this journey home. Another glimpse into the palantir of the ship taking the Straight Path??

Episode 12 (Feast) - Return to Lothlorien for another celebration - the land of Lorien is unchanged, despite the loss of some of the elves who lived there. Arwen decides that keeping her friend's memory will have to be enough for her, because she plans to stay in Middle Earth for a long time.

Episode 13 (Darkening of Valinor) - No idea. Some sort of wrap up with Celeborn and Galadriel.
ARE YOU GUYS CRAZY????? there is no way in the world that Professor Olsen will accept this!!!!
This is way off track of what the brief was. I will put it to him, but prepare to get it shot down in flames or just totally ignored (which is his usual way of dealing with stuff he doesn't agree with).
*head in hands* "I can't believe what I am reading" *sigh*
 
Wasn't that written a really long time ago, before the last frame discussion?
It was Haakon, but this was the first time I had read it, and I am not sure that the hosts are aware of it unless it was shared with them for the fundraiser session in October.
 
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Phillip, I shared that with them prior to the webathon session. Corey Olsen's comment that he longed for the days when the Frame was just 3 people sitting around talking pretty well nixed any possibility of this. Basically, yes, it was considered, and deemed too much story to tell in the Frame.

So don't worry! We're all on board with Arwen sitting around in Lothlorien! We do need *some* ties to the outside world, and so far that means we have the flashbacks to Celebrian and viewing Valinor in the Mirror. It would be great if we could have Arwen leave Lothlorien and visit 'mortal lands' for one episode, and there was that idea about her providing aid to the farming families on the Anduin in light of the Gollum-attacks (though the identity of the mysterious creature in the night will remain unknown). Or we can use what Haakon suggested for Episode 8 above.
 
Phillip, I shared that with them prior to the webathon session. Corey Olsen's comment that he longed for the days when the Frame was just 3 people sitting around talking pretty well nixed any possibility of this. Basically, yes, it was considered, and deemed too much story to tell in the Frame.

So don't worry! We're all on board with Arwen sitting around in Lothlorien! We do need *some* ties to the outside world, and so far that means we have the flashbacks to Celebrian and viewing Valinor in the Mirror. It would be great if we could have Arwen leave Lothlorien and visit 'mortal lands' for one episode, and there was that idea about her providing aid to the farming families on the Anduin in light of the Gollum-attacks (though the identity of the mysterious creature in the night will remain unknown).
Thank you. I am so relieved. As I hadn't read this at the fundraiser I didn't pick up the outcome.
 
Understood! Sorry to raise your heart rate there!

At the time, we had been instructed to brainstorm things that could happen in the Frame, and the possibility of making use of the palantir at the Tower Hills came up as a way to let Celebrían speak in this story, and...this was just a suggestion of how to work that in.
 
New direction....

First half of the frame is should-I-stay-or-should-I-go? with Valinor and Middle Earth

Later half is about darkness and loss and how one deals with that. So, loss of her mom to the orcs, but also potential fall of Elladan to his rage.


Also, Haakon, your 'fieldtrip' is in for Episode 8 (though with some modification based on their discussion).
Comment on that: "I kinda hate the idea of Arwen, rich girl, elf princess, seeing what it is like for the poor folk and being sad about it. Buuuut, it doesn't have to be like that, I suppose." (Don't know who's addition that was to the chat, but definitely something to keep in mind while designing this story)
 
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