horses

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
One thing ive stumbled upon while listening to the podcast...

What about horses?

As far as i can see the Sindar do NOT have horses yet in season 4? Right?

Do the dwarves have ponies? Or will they be given to them later, maybe by men? As asign that both cultures have started to 7nteract and trade with each other?

The other thing is elf-horses...

As far as i remember the noldor will have horses in valinor, as they go hunting with orome and his folk... so i guess they have elf-horses... which may or may not be intelligent creatures like the great eagles 8r the hounds of the valar - but at last are more big, beautifuls, strong, fast , clever and noble than any of the horses in middle-earth, maybe excluding the mearas.

So because the falmari ships are HUGE (at least some whre big transports which brought large buolders from the quarries in southern aman zo the baymof eldamar to buold tirion and other sites), the noldor are able tombring some of their beloved familiars to middle-earth, so they have a powerful but very small cavalry from the beginning (maybe Fingolfins folk brought some horses with them over the helcaraxe, but u doubt that many or even any of them survived..)

However, the noldor will soon have a large and powerful cavalry which will be stationed in the various siege-camps soon-to-be-fortresses throughout ard-galen...

So one idea was that there are wild horses living in ard-galen and the noldor breed these horses withnthe valinor race and so they very soon have a large population of valinorian half-bloods to draw steeds from...

Now when do the Sindar get horses? We know they have horses at some point bacause the later thingol,and his hunters ride on horses -right?

Will the noldor at some point , perhaps as asign of reconciliation, actually GIVE valinorian horses to the Sindar as a gift?

Or maybe , like the great eagles, these elfhorses have tjeir own rules and king and some 8f them axtually CHOOSE to leave feanors sons and rather live with the sindar?

WhaT do you think?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
One thing ive stumbled upon while listening to the podcast...

What about horses?

As far as i can see the Sindar do NOT have horses yet in season 4? Right?

Do the dwarves have ponies? Or will they be given to them later, maybe by men? As asign that both cultures have started to 7nteract and trade with each other?

The other thing is elf-horses...

As far as i remember the noldor will have horses in valinor, as they go hunting with orome and his folk... so i guess they have elf-horses... which may or may not be intelligent creatures like the great eagles 8r the hounds of the valar - but at last are more big, beautifuls, strong, fast , clever and noble than any of the horses in middle-earth, maybe excluding the mearas.

So because the falmari ships are HUGE (at least some whre big transports which brought large buolders from the quarries in southern aman zo the baymof eldamar to buold tirion and other sites), the noldor are able tombring some of their beloved familiars to middle-earth, so they have a powerful but very small cavalry from the beginning (maybe Fingolfins folk brought some horses with them over the helcaraxe, but u doubt that many or even any of them survived..)

However, the noldor will soon have a large and powerful cavalry which will be stationed in the various siege-camps soon-to-be-fortresses throughout ard-galen...

So one idea was that there are wild horses living in ard-galen and the noldor breed these horses withnthe valinor race and so they very soon have a large population of valinorian half-bloods to draw steeds from...

Now when do the Sindar get horses? We know they have horses at some point bacause the later thingol,and his hunters ride on horses -right?

Will the noldor at some point , perhaps as asign of reconciliation, actually GIVE valinorian horses to the Sindar as a gift?

Or maybe , like the great eagles, these elfhorses have tjeir own rules and king and some 8f them axtually CHOOSE to leave feanors sons and rather live with the sindar?

WhaT do you think?
Suggestions sound good.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
Hmmm...I think we decided that the dwarves would not have ponies pre-contact with Elves and Men. Left to their own devices, Dwarves aren't much for pets or animal husbandry.

Certainly, we have shown the Fëanoreans with horses in Beleriand. Celegorm has been roaming around with Huan and taking on werewolves while mounted. These are definitely animals they brought from Valinor. I think there is no harm in giving these horses characteristics not unlike the mearas of Rohan in the Third Age.

The Host of Fingolfin is going to get some horses back from the Fëanoreans as a 'gift' (reparations?) when they reconcile in Episode 2, most likely. So, their horses will also be Valinorean stock.

I imagine there are some wild horses in Middle-earth that can be mixed with the Valinorean horses to fill out the herds for the rest of the First Age. And if there are wild horses, the Sindar *could* tame them on their own. I suppose that the wild horses don't live anywhere near Doriath, though.


An intelligent horse leaving the 'service' of an elf lord and then choosing a different life could be an interesting side story. It would be like Huan leaving Celegorm for Lúthien.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Hmmm...I think we decided that the dwarves would not have ponies pre-contact with Elves and Men. Left to their own devices, Dwarves aren't much for pets or animal husbandry.

Certainly, we have shown the Fëanoreans with horses in Beleriand. Celegorm has been roaming around with Huan and taking on werewolves while mounted. These are definitely animals they brought from Valinor. I think there is no harm in giving these horses characteristics not unlike the mearas of Rohan in the Third Age.

The Host of Fingolfin is going to get some horses back from the Fëanoreans as a 'gift' (reparations?) when they reconcile in Episode 2, most likely. So, their horses will also be Valinorean stock.

I imagine there are some wild horses in Middle-earth that can be mixed with the Valinorean horses to fill out the herds for the rest of the First Age. And if there are wild horses, the Sindar *could* tame them on their own. I suppose that the wild horses don't live anywhere near Doriath, though.


An intelligent horse leaving the 'service' of an elf lord and then choosing a different life could be an interesting side story. It would be like Huan leaving Celegorm for Lúthien.
Will they be long-lived?
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
The mearas are as long-lived as a human, and Huan seems to be as immortal as the elves, so yeah, I see no reason why the horses from Valinor can't live more than the usual 20-30 years you'd expect for a domesticated horse.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
There must be wild horses. Europe had native wild horses until humans killed them all.

The Sindar could have had horses and livestock already, but I don't know if we showed them.

All of the surviving Noldorin horses (and presumably livestock) are in Feanorian hands. Maedhros will give many of them to Fingolfin's folk. I agree that Valinorean horses must be like mearas, or more so. Some could decide to find new riders, although in the book they don't make their own decision even after the Kinslaying. Maybe something would have to prompt them to leave?

The Dwarves don't domesticate animals for themselves, according to Tolkien, and I think we showed that they have none in Season 3. They'll have to buy them from Elves or Mortals.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe the Sindar ride horses at times, but don’t domesticate them. They could ask horses if they would take them, and then thank them and say goodbye, until another time. Perhaps some horses are more inclined to take riders than others.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
The gift of horses from the Feanoreans to Fingolfin is now in Season 3 episode 10. That is after the Dagor Aglareb.

The question is, is Rochallor one of the gifted horses? Can this horse live for hundreds of years?
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I think that they could live rather long lives during the First Age but it affects the story. Does Fingolfin have the same horse from Dagor Aglareb until Dagor Bragollach? A change will mark passing of time, which is good, but how many changes do we want?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
There's a difference between mearas and valinorean horses! If huan is immortal so can be great eagles and elfhorses!
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
No, but we know elves ride without saddle, Rohirrim with saddle.or was it bridle? Both modt likely..
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
If they are like Asfaloth they are at last faster than most other horses, they don't need to be immortal though.

It states in the pubsil if i remember rightly, that the elves brought few horses from valinor but these multiplied quickly on ard galen... to me an indicator 1. These horses lived pretty much very free roaming the landscape 2. These horses were not immortal and no maiar!

They still could be longlived though, but question wpuld be HOW longlived then?
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Let me throw in a suggestion: 150 years.

As a reference, a horse normally lives 25-30 years, but some live to be 50 or so. The oldest known horse was called Old Billy; he was born in England in 1760 and died in 1822.
 
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