S04E05 Script Discussion

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Would be silly if Sauron plays an instrument different in appearance from any of the instruments the elves have there, wouldn't it? So i guess he just gets a fiddle, harp, lute, lyre, flute, viol , violine, pipe, piccolo or whatever lies or stands around there..

Though it would be kind of funny of he plays drum, gong, bell, horn, tuba, whistle,cymbal, tambourine or any other more andbandish instrument... the organ! Sauron should play the organ i'd love that!
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Would be silly if Sauron plays an instrument different in appearance from any of the instruments the elves have there, wouldn't it? So i guess he just gets a fiddle, harp, lute, lyre, flute, viol , violine, pipe, piccolo or whatever lies or stands around there..

Though it would be kind of funny of he plays drum, gong, bell, horn, tuba, whistle,cymbal, tambourine or any other more andbandish instrument... the organ! Sauron should play the organ i'd love that!
I'd actually suggested something like a hurdy gurdy (which preceded the pipe organ as a church instrument). The name sounds a bit silly, but you can play some pretty complex stuff on one, plus I kind of like the mechanical nature of the instrument for Sauron.





(May have gotten a little carried away.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
We were picturing Sauron playing his music in a room with an open window, and the elves 'affected' by it are outside. Thus, no one sees him playing the instrument while this is happening. It's to make it more realistic that Lúthien has no clue who/what is causing the bad vibes she's fighting against - it would be a little obvious if it were 'the creepy dude playing that instrument right there.'

At this point, though, I'll be happy with whatever instruments Philip Menzies wants to throw at this piece!
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I love the name Hurdy Gurdy so much, but I don't have any way of reproducing its sound. Strangely, it is not a standard instrument on my virtual orchestra.
That isn't actually that surprising. It was invented about a thousand years ago and has a silly name. Also, they are associated with street musicians from the 19th century rather than serious musical composition.

One of the things I like them is that they are kind of like the bagpipes of the string family. The drone strings aren't that different from drone pipes.

Another cool feature is something which I think is called a trumpet string, which when engaged adds a buzzing sound which is used for rhythm. The girl playing the Game of Thrones theme is using it pretty heavily if you want an example.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I finished another script! Please let me know what you like and dislike about it and if you have any suggestions for changes.

I think the biggest changes I made from the script outline are making most of Act IV happen the day after Act III, which I did so that the light would be coming from the east when Galadriel is revealing the Kinslaying to Celeborn and to emphasize that the Mereth Aderthad lasts several days, and downplaying Thuringwethil's conversation with Cirdan, which I did to make sure the Mereth Aderthad ended on a positive note.
 

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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I finished another script! Please let me know what you like and dislike about it and if you have any suggestions for changes.

I think the biggest changes I made from the script outline are making most of Act IV happen the day after Act III, which I did so that the light would be coming from the east when Galadriel is revealing the Kinslaying to Celeborn and to emphasize that the Mereth Aderthad lasts several days, and downplaying Thuringwethil's conversation with Cirdan, which I did to make sure the Mereth Aderthad ended on a positive note.
The only structural concern I have is that the makeup vignettes in the 4th act seem a bit heavy-handed to me. How it might come out with real actors I couldn't say.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Do you think it would be better without them? I could have everyone just forget what they were arguing about when Luthien sings.
I think it might be, though it would cut down on runtime.

On another note, I need to read through some of the speeches to see how long they run in real time.


Overall, I'm super-impressed, particularly with the way you wove Sauron and Thuringwethil in.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I don't think the runtime will be an issue. The time could be made up with more shots of Luthien dancing or something.

Sauron and Thuringwethil were fun to write. I tried to make them kind of silly in this episode since the next episode will be so much darker.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
I just noticed it here, but how have we been having Sauron refer to himself? Does he use "Sauron" or does he still use "Mairon" or something else? I know that by the time of the 3rd Age we learn that he does not use that name or allow others to use it, but I don't know that he's in a position here in the 1st Age to make demands on everyone of what they call him.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I've assumed that he doesn't call himself Sauron, so, presumably Mairon. I don't know, it seems the most reasonable but perhaps he stops using that for some reason. Maybe he stops having a name altogether.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Looks like we'll have to have a name made for him, as Mairon will likely be known, Galadriel and Celebrimbor will know the name Annatar as that is his name in the Second Age, and Sauron and Gorthaur are names used by his enemies; Gorthaur by the Sindar and Sauron by everyone else. He was only able to institute Morgoth worship on Numenor because nobody was there who remembered the name Melkor.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
He needs an operating name. Just the sort of problem that a bird's eye history doesn't have to worry about. :p "Translations from the Elvish" can call him Sauron all day long, but that's not going to work for us.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I think Mairon is fine for now. Gothmog calls him Sauron insultingly (and the orcs can as well), but his own associates (Draugluin, Thuringwethil, Tevildo) would definitely still call him Mairon. Gorthaur the Cruel can happen at some point if we need it.

Sauron literally has more names than any other character Tolkien ever created (even beats Aragorn and Turin Turambar), and he's in our show from beginning to end. So....we have time to play with his names if he needs to. We'll definitely be doing Annatar, and it won't be obvious from day one that that's Sauron (probably).

But yes, he can go by an 'elvish' code-name when he's in disguise.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I just noticed it here, but how have we been having Sauron refer to himself? Does he use "Sauron" or does he still use "Mairon" or something else? I know that by the time of the 3rd Age we learn that he does not use that name or allow others to use it, but I don't know that he's in a position here in the 1st Age to make demands on everyone of what they call him.
Sorry, I forgot that Sauron wasn't going by that name yet. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll change it to Mairon in the scripts.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I'd actually suggested something like a hurdy gurdy (which preceded the pipe organ as a church instrument). The name sounds a bit silly, but you can play some pretty complex stuff on one, plus I kind of like the mechanical nature of the instrument for Sauron.





(May have gotten a little carried away.
I love the hurdy gurdy! In fact, when I came up with the idea that Sauron could sing in harmony with himself using two seperate sounds, a first one being a drone and a second one lighter and more melodious, I was thinking about the hurdy gurdy, and also the keyed fiddle (both drone instruments). Perhaps that's why you thought of the hurdy gurdy, Nicholas?

Is there any reason why there can't be a hurdy gurdy at nevrast?
 
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