Season 4 Episode 12 Script Discussion

MithLuin

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Staff member
Outline


A plot - The construction of Gondolin and Aredhel's farewell tour
B plot - The construction of Nargothrond and the eviction of the Petty-dwarves

Protagonist: Aredhel

Teaser: Balin, Gandalf, and Bilbo visit Dis' workshop. Balin places an order for some armor, and speaks of his plan to reclaim Moria. Dwalin has finished the dragon-proof doors, and joins their conversation.

Act 1
Scene 1: Aredhel, Turgon, and Idril in Nevrast. Turgon is gushing about the wonder that is Tumladen and the glory that will be Gondolin. Idril is quietly in wonder of this idea. Aredhel is more...confused. Why do they need this other place when they have Vinyamar? Idril mentions to Aredhel how exciting this will all be, and they will go there together. Privately, Aredhel takes Turgon aside and asks her questions. She says she'll think of it, but she must take her farewell of everyone.

Scene 2: Mablung and Norn on the road with a large contingent of armed dwarves (and some Sindar elves). They are bringing construction supplies. They are headed to the caves above the River Narog. They talk about how Galadriel and Celeborn are engaged now; and she turned out to be a better person than Norn thought, eh? They discuss the plans they worked out with Thingol, and why Norn has so many armed troops - it's peacetime! Norn is always prepared; and he hasn't been out this way in a very long time.

Scene 3: Turgon gathers craftsmen and recruits them to work on Gondolin. He explains the secrecy issue - all who go must stay. Some of them are reluctant.

Scene 4: Aredhel visits Fingolfin. She explains that Turgon is planning a secret stronghold and taking 'some' of his people there. Fingolfin is surprised by news of the Gondolin project, and doesn't see why this is necessary. He recognizes Turgon's foresightedness, so he gives his blessing even though he doesn't understand. Fingon reacts to news his brother is leaving by asking Aredhel if she too is leaving.

Act 2
Scene 5: Norn and Mablung enter the caves above the River Narog, and find it occupied. Norn gives an ultimatum that these people must leave. Mablung is confused, and Norn explains that they are all criminals. Norn and Mablung retreat to their camp nearby.

Scene 6: Turgon goes to Tumladen with his crew and begins the initial construction of Gondolin. His crew is impressed, but they must stay forever now.

Scene 7: Mîm and his petty-dwarves discuss what to do about the Dwarves at their gate. Some want to stay and fight, but they know they can't - the Dwarves can besiege us and bring more, and the elves too. But where can they go? They sound pretty rough. Mîm has an idea....

Scene 8: Norn and Mablung return, finding the caves deserted. Norn is saying that they are ready to get started on construction. They bring in the boring ram.


Act 3

Scene 9: Aredhel visits Celegorm and Curufin. She does not reveal to them the plan to move to Gondolin, but does discuss with the brothers what the Noldor need to be doing. Curufin strenuously argues against Turgon's ideas (though being ignorant of Gondolin), and Aredhel struggles to defend her brother's thoughts.

Scene 10: Finrod/Turgon working on projects. Turgon is crafting the leaves of the Silver/Gold Trees while Gondolin springs up in the background. Finrod inspects the caves of Nargothrond and gives instruction to the Dwarves, nodding in approval on his way off.

Scene 11: Aredhel bids farewell to Celegorm and Curufin, and goes riding south. She meets Amras, who takes her back to his camp (mobile tents). She is a bit shocked that he has no permanent abode. They talk by firelight, and he speaks of the hopelessness of their situation.

Scene 12: The Dwarves break through a wall in Nargothrond and discover a hidden enclave of Petty-dwarves.

Act 4
Scene 13: Norn and Mablung are awakened in their camp outside the caves. There's an emergency! They all rush into the caves, where there is intense arguing over the existence of the Petty-dwarves. Norn orders his troops to oust them by force. Mablung steps in, protesting that surely children and sick people aren't criminals! Norn tells the story of his own brother. Norn explains that sometimes families choose exile with the criminals, but what would you have them do? Kill the murderers? Mablung has no answer, and Norn evicts the Petty-dwarves.

Scene 14: Aredhel's return to Nevrast. She and Turgon speak privately - he's eager to hear how her journey went, and whether she's ready to join him in the city of Gondolin? She asks who all has agreed to go, and is shocked when Turgon says that everyone has agreed. Aredhel says she too will join him, since his plan holds the hope of the Noldor.

Scene 15: Turgon is standing on the balcony of the throne room in Nevrast with Glorfindel, Ecthelion, Idril, and Aredhel. They are discussing plans to leave the city. Suddenly, Ulmo is standing among them. A storm comes in. He delivers his speech, showing them a vision of Tuor's armor in the throne room. Ulmo vanishes in a splash of water.

Scene 16: Finrod inspects Nargothrond, and is quite pleased. He pays Norn handsomely for his efforts. Mablung is uncomfortably silent.

Tag: The Gondolindrim move in secret to Gondolin.
Bilbo gives her a copy of his book. Gimli is one of the students.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Question: what means do we have for the Gondolodrim not being seen by Morgoth's spies? Also, I have an idea for a deleted scene.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Question: what means do we have for the Gondolodrim not being seen by Morgoth's spies? Also, I have an idea for a deleted scene.
I don't think Morgoth has that many spies out, so it's not like the Gondolindrim are under constant surveillance. They move in small parties and not all at once to draw less attention to themselves. If they need a spell of concealment, I like the idea of Ulmo doing something with mist since he gives Tuor a piece of his cloak of mist to conceal him.

What is your idea for a deleted scene?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
During the Session, the Hosts said they liked the suggestion of mist from the rivers hiding the movements, because of the obvious connection to Ulmo, as well as the parallel to Galadriel hiding the movements of Eorl the Young in the Third Age.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I don't think Morgoth has that many spies out, so it's not like the Gondolindrim are under constant surveillance. They move in small parties and not all at once to draw less attention to themselves. If they need a spell of concealment, I like the idea of Ulmo doing something with mist since he gives Tuor a piece of his cloak of mist to conceal him.

What is your idea for a deleted scene?
The after action scene of Dragluin nursing his wounds. Ripoff of the scene from The Lion King right before “Be Prepared”.

Pasted from the Episodes 12 and 13 discussion thread:

Dragluin: Man that lousy Thorondor! I won't able to sit for a week!

[Tevildo laughing]

Dragluin: It's not funny, Tevildo.

[Tevildo just laughs harder]

Dragluin: Hey, shut up!

[Tevildo continues laughing, Dragluin tackles Tevildo]

Thuringwetil: [arrives] Will you knock it off?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Here is my script for Episode 12, finally.

I need names for Mim's daughter (Mim backwards won't work :(), and Norn's brother. In the tradition of Fili and Kili, Balin and Dwalin, Oin and Gloin, etc., I think Norn's brother's name should rhyme with Norn.

I know we said there would be no palantiri in Middle-earth, but I think Curufin could and would make one in an attempt to find his wife. However, if people don't like it being there, I can take it out.

I had Cirdan know about Turgon leaving for Gondolin because I think Turgon would have to tell him something in order for him to be okay with Galdor leaving.

I haven't written the version without Angrod yet, so just imagine him as a ghost.
 

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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Here is my script for Episode 12, finally.

I need names for Mim's daughter (Mim backwards won't work :(), and Norn's brother. In the tradition of Fili and Kili, Balin and Dwalin, Oin and Gloin, etc., I think Norn's brother's name should rhyme with Norn.

I know we said there would be no palantiri in Middle-earth, but I think Curufin could and would make one in an attempt to find his wife. However, if people don't like it being there, I can take it out.

I had Cirdan know about Turgon leaving for Gondolin because I think Turgon would have to tell him something in order for him to be okay with Galdor leaving.

I haven't written the version without Angrod yet, so just imagine him as a ghost.
Try Dorn?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute... Mim’s daughter? I thought Mim wouldn’t be alive at this point, since Dwarves typically only live 250-350 years.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute... Mim’s daughter? I thought Mim wouldn’t be alive at this point, since Dwarves typically only live 250-350 years.
This is Mim I. The Mim that Turin interacts with will be several generations later and name himself after this Mim in an imitation of the fathers of the Dwarves being reborn among their kin (Durin I, Durin II, etc.).
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Norn, Dorn, Bjorn, Beorn, Capricorn, Torn, Forlorn, Mourn....

In all seriousness, Norn's name is taken from the Norns, the fates of Norse Myth. So, if he has a brother (could it be a sister?), we could name her Urd (Urðr). Or Wyrd. [Both those words should be feminine.]

Perhaps ørlǫg ? That also means 'fate' so is a match to Norn.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Norn, Dorn, Bjorn, Beorn, Capricorn, Torn, Forlorn, Mourn....

In all seriousness, Norn's name is taken from the Norns, the fates of Norse Myth. So, if he has a brother (could it be a sister?), we could name her Urd (Urðr). Or Wyrd. [Both those words should be feminine.]

Perhaps ørlǫg ? That also means 'fate' so is a match to Norn.
I would kind of like Dwarf siblings having rhyming names because of The Hobbit, but maybe we could use those names for a daughter or granddaughter of Norn who comes into the story later.

It would be really cool to have a Dwarf woman named Wyrd because the name could also be seen as a reference to the Weird Sisters from Macbeth (who have beards).
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I know we said there would be no palantiri in Middle-earth, but I think Curufin could and would make one in an attempt to find his wife. However, if people don't like it being there, I can take it out.
I haven't had the opportunity to read this one yet, but I'm pretty curious about what led to this.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I haven't had the opportunity to read this one yet, but I'm pretty curious about what led to this.
It's something I thought of when I was picturing how the scene would play out. I wanted Aredhel to visit Curufin in his workshop, so I was thinking about what he would be making, and I had the idea for him to walk in and cover something he didn't want her to see, and then I thought the thing he covered could be a palantir. I wrote several different versions of the scene of him talking about it to Celegorm, so if the one I have in the script doesn't work, I'd be happy to share the others.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
There are several reasons for the 'no palantiri' thing. If you can avoid causing any of those problems, we can consider introducing one.

Issues:
If Morgoth has one, it strains credulity that he doesn't know where Nargothrond and Gondolin are almost instantly. Morgoth was in Formenos. Ergo....he had every opportunity to pick up palantiri if he wanted to. Instead, we had him smash them.

If the Noldor have them, they can communicate long distance. That...would be a really useful thing. Especially for, say, coordinating the 5th Battle. So, the Noldor can't have palantiri (plural) because that would mess things up. However, a single palantir wouldn't aid in communication, and so...it's possible...that having one wouldn't violate this rule.

We had Amrod bring a palantir on the ship, and then it was lost when the ships burned (presumably, it's on the seafloor at the Firth of Drengist). The other palantiri are currently all in Valinor. Finwë/Fëanor gifted a bunch to the Teleri (so they could look back to their kin in Middle-earth).

Having Curufin attempt and fail to make a working palantir would perhaps speak to the hopelessness of the situation of the Noldor in Middle-earth....but really, he should be able to make one. And, well, you're right, wouldn't he at least try? Even if he can't use it to see within Angband, he would have motivation here. And if he then has a palantir, what are the later implications of that? What can Curufin 'see coming' and how would he use that? And at what point would that palantir be lost/destroyed? (It's obviously not in 3rd Age Middle-earth) We'd have to be able to answer those questions satisfactorily to justify a working palantir now.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
There are several reasons for the 'no palantiri' thing. If you can avoid causing any of those problems, we can consider introducing one.

Issues:
If Morgoth has one, it strains credulity that he doesn't know where Nargothrond and Gondolin are almost instantly. Morgoth was in Formenos. Ergo....he had every opportunity to pick up palantiri if he wanted to. Instead, we had him smash them.

If the Noldor have them, they can communicate long distance. That...would be a really useful thing. Especially for, say, coordinating the 5th Battle. So, the Noldor can't have palantiri (plural) because that would mess things up. However, a single palantir wouldn't aid in communication, and so...it's possible...that having one wouldn't violate this rule.

We had Amrod bring a palantir on the ship, and then it was lost when the ships burned (presumably, it's on the seafloor at the Firth of Drengist). The other palantiri are currently all in Valinor. Finwë/Fëanor gifted a bunch to the Teleri (so they could look back to their kin in Middle-earth).

Having Curufin attempt and fail to make a working palantir would perhaps speak to the hopelessness of the situation of the Noldor in Middle-earth....but really, he should be able to make one. And, well, you're right, wouldn't he at least try? Even if he can't use it to see within Angband, he would have motivation here. And if he then has a palantir, what are the later implications of that? What can Curufin 'see coming' and how would he use that? And at what point would that palantir be lost/destroyed? (It's obviously not in 3rd Age Middle-earth) We'd have to be able to answer those questions satisfactorily to justify a working palantir now.

Yeah, it certainly makes it harder for the Easterlings to betray them at the Nirnaeth if Curufin has a Palantir.
 
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