Session 4-19: Creative Content - Casting for Season 4

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Nar is speaker as far as i can see, and without a definite female ending it makes the name masculine.

We definitely need a language expert on the board...
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
Atanvarno is certainly more comfortable/confident with elvish than am I, but is, alas, not currently here. Josh Ramsey is another Mythgard person who has done quite a lot of work with translating texts into elvish. I don't know that he has any interest in Silm Film, though. My beta for one of my stories with a lot of elvish names in it was Fiondil, but he is no longer with us, so I can't exactly ask him.


A generic ending can be used for feminine names, as in Elenwë. Not every female name Tolkien coined ended in -ië, -wen, -iel, etc. However, there is certainly nothing wrong with suggesting a name with one of those endings for the Fëanorean wife we're trying to name here!
 

Rhiannon

Member
In choosing names for unnamed characters, I don't think it's absolutely necessary that we try to strictly conform to the rules of elvish linguistics. For one thing, Tolkien never fully developed any of his languages and kept changing them over the course of his life, so I think it would be really hard to derive rules for creating names from the documents he left.

Phonaesthetics seemed to be Tolkien's guiding principle when creating his languages and names, so I think it would be more in keeping with the spirit of Tolkien's language invention to choose names based on how they sound and how well they seem to fit the character in question. I'm not proposing that we completely ignore the rules for Quenya and Sindarin that do exist; I just don't think we should let them hamper our creativity when it comes to naming.

That said, my suggestion for Curufin's wife's name is Diriel. It's a word I pulled out of "A Elbereth Gilthoniel" because I saw that it was used as a rhyme with "miriel," and I thought Feanor would very much approve of Curufin marrying someone whose name rhymed with his mother's name. Diriel was also a name Tolkien used for Amras in his earlier writings, but I think it would work as a female name nonetheless.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
The thing is -r is typically a male ending, i believe the -nar ending in Quennar comes from -nara/-nyar which means speak or tell, i compare it with ista, knowledge which becimes istar, wizard, a male form too. Therefore i deduct quennar is probably not a neuter form but masculine according to quenya affix rules...


I still could be wrong, but that is my understanding so far..
even the page i linked is unsure if -r does mark sex, but every single quenya personal name i found which ends -ar is one of a male person.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
Certainly, nar/nari could work like tar/tari, and I will suggest Quennari as an alternative to Quennar.

And we have Diriel. Any other suggestions?
 

Rhiannon

Member
Here are the notes I took during this episode. Let me know if there is anything important I missed.
  • Casting suggestions are not binding, feel free to suggest whoever seems fit for the role
  • Adult Idril - wise, blonde, small and slight, princess-like, cute, physically unimposing
  • Ecthelion - dark, rugged, physically powerful
  • Glorfindel - gorgeous, blond
  • Rog - physically largest captain of Gondolin, dark-haired, swarthy
  • Edhellos - dark, physically imposing, Herald of Angrod
  • Meril - should look young, less formal because of her Sindar culture
  • Curufin’s wife - kind of like Nerdanel in character, influences Celebrimbor to be better than Curufin, regal, strong-willed, proud, outspoken, but gentler than Nerdanel
  • Annael - thin, small, wiry, dark-haired, dark skin, soft-spoken, sunnier personality before capture
  • Oropher - wait until next season
  • Thorondor voice - Manwe’s voice but altered
  • Glaurung voice - rich and persuasive, mellifluous, creepily beautiful, not evil sounding
  • Caranthir - heavy jaw, muscular, good sneer, not ugly
  • Renaming of Rog - Rhogrin
  • Curufin’s wife - Diriel
  • Orodreth’s father - Angrod
  • Gil-galad’s father - Orodreth
  • Celeborn’s sibling - sister who is Green-elf spokesperson and still there in Third Age frame, Nimloth is her daughter
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I have some problems with the concept of a small Idril. We’ve cast taller actors/actresses for both her parents (Turgon’s actor is 6’5” and Gabrielle Wilde is 5’10”), so the odds are on her being relatively tall and being short will make her look like she’s not their daughter. A smaller Idril will undoubtedly struggle in kissing scenes with Tuor (I witnessed this sort of thing with Sally Hawkins, who was 5’2”, and Rupert Penry-Jones (6’2”) in Persuasion). Furthermore, Elves on principle are tall, so Idril will not look like an Elf.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I have some problems with the concept of a small Idril. We’ve cast taller actors/actresses for both her parents (Turgon’s actor is 6’5” and Gabrielle Wilde is 5’10”), so the odds are on her being relatively tall and being short will make her look like she’s not their daughter. A smaller Idril will undoubtedly struggle in kissing scenes with Tuor (I witnessed this sort of thing with Sally Hawkins, who was 5’2”, and Rupert Penry-Jones (6’2”) in Persuasion). Furthermore, Elves on principle are tall, so Idril will not look like an Elf.
Like Prof. Olsen said, there will certainly be opportunities to raise this issue when we actually do casting for Idril.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I don’t think we decided on a name.
So I gather but I meant that we’ve invented a female elf, the sister of Celeborn, whose daughter is Nimloth. We have chosen not to include (as far as I have understood) Galathil, who is the brother of Celeborn, supposedly the father of Nimloth. So we’ve made a gender switch, basically.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
So I gather but I meant that we’ve invented a female elf, the sister of Celeborn, whose daughter is Nimloth. We have chosen not to include (as far as I have understood) Galathil, who is the brother of Celeborn, supposedly the father of Nimloth. So we’ve made a gender switch, basically.
Did we directly include Galathil on the list?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
So I gather but I meant that we’ve invented a female elf, the sister of Celeborn, whose daughter is Nimloth. We have chosen not to include (as far as I have understood) Galathil, who is the brother of Celeborn, supposedly the father of Nimloth. So we’ve made a gender switch, basically.
@Faelivrin won’t like this, especially since Nimloth’s mother won’t play a part in the upbringing of her descendants like Elrond and Elros. It also makes her a bit... neglectful.
 
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