Session 4-27, 4-28: Post-production Script Review, Parts 3 and 4

[Nicholas Palazzo]

I'm not sure which scenes would be considered long in E11. Most of them seem to be about 1-3 minutes or so.

 

[Rhiannon]

I'm not sure which scenes would be considered long in E11. Most of them seem to be about 1-3 minutes or so.

Yes, but, overall, I can tighten up the dialogue to make room for one more scene. I'm doing that right now for Episode 9.

 

[MithLuin]

I have Rhogrin apparently killed by a Balrog as he tries to take the message to Fingolfin, so that's why the message doesn't get through.

Oh, is this the scene that is meant to satisfy the intent of the balrog rule that you were asking about?

 

[Rhiannon]

Oh, is this the scene that is meant to satisfy the intent of the balrog rule that you were asking about?

Yes. He doesn't really die, but the viewers won't know that. What I want to do in Episode 11 is reveal that Annael found Rhogrin and healed him. Then, before Rhogrin has fully recovered, they will both be captured.

 

[MithLuin]

To be honest, I doubt a minor character being seemingly killed but then actually surviving will satisfy the balrog rule. That seems too minor a consequence.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

To be honest, I doubt a minor character being seemingly killed but then actually surviving will satisfy the balrog rule. That seems too minor a consequence.

Depends on if Rhogrin’s a minor character.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Depends on if Rhogrin’s a minor character.

I mean, he certainly is for now.

 

[Haakon]

Do we really be so stuck to the Balrog rule? I mean we made it up, it’s not something JRR wrote? It could still be relevant over time, let’s say no major character is killed now, but three or four in Dagor Bragollach. Would it make them look weak?

 

[Rhiannon]

Do we really be so stuck to the Balrog rule? I mean we made it up, it’s not something JRR wrote? It could still be relevant over time, let’s say no major character is killed now, but three or four in Dagor Bragollach. Would it make them look weak?

And the Balrogs will look much stronger when they are killing dozens of well-armed soldiers than when killing Edhellos, who is distraught and half under the Spell of Bottomless Dread.

 

[Haakon]

And the Balrogs will look much stronger when they are killing dozens of well-armed soldiers than when killing Edhellos, who is distraught and half under the Spell of Bottomless Dread.

Well the answer to that would be that Gothmog kills Angrod...

Honestly, if Gothmog kills Edhellos and Angrod sees it, he would have to be restrained to not run to his death in an attack on the Balrog.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Well the answer to that would be that Gothmog kills Angrod...

Honestly, if Gothmog kills Edhellos and Angrod sees it, he would have to be restrained to not run to his death in an attack on the Balrog.

Which is more or less how we wrote it initially.

 

[Haakon]

Which is more or less how we wrote it initially.

Him being restrained?

 

[Haakon]

I think that the Balrog rule cannot be that each time a Balrog is present, a named character dies. There has to be a Balrog that engages in battle with a named character, or a named character that engages in battle with the Balrog. When Gandalf fights Durin's Bane, he chooses to fight the Balrog. Those who avoid battle survive. Each of the named characters who are killed want to fight their enemy, and do it. If Aegnor holds Angrod back, wrestles him to the ground etc., Gothmog won't necessarily walk across the battlefield to kill him. He doesn't care about Angrod particularly. He wants to kill Elves. This would result in a buildup where we "owe " the Balrogs a death. Next time, we let them take more lives.

 

[Rhiannon]

Him being restrained?

I think Nick means that, in the original outline we made, Angrod died when he charged at Gothmog after Gothmog killed Edhellos.

 

[Haakon]

I think Nick means that, in the original outline we made, Angrod died when he charged at Gothmog after Gothmog killed Edhellos.

Yes but I wasn’t aiming for that, since it’s not what we want. The point was that he could and should be restrained.

 

[Rhiannon]

Yes but I wasn’t aiming for that, since it’s not what we want. The point was that he could and should be restrained.

Angrod doesn't necessarily need to go mad with grief. He could be satisfied with just driving Gothmog away.

 

[Haakon]

Angrod doesn't necessarily need to go mad with grief. He could be satisfied with just driving Gothmog away.

I’m not saying he’s going mad. He would just want to kill that ugly monster who slew his love.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

I think that the Balrog rule cannot be that each time a Balrog is present, a named character dies. There has to be a Balrog that engages in battle with a named character, or a named character that engages in battle with the Balrog. When Gandalf fights Durin's Bane, he chooses to fight the Balrog. Those who avoid battle survive. Each of the named characters who are killed want to fight their enemy, and do it. If Aegnor holds Angrod back, wrestles him to the ground etc., Gothmog won't necessarily walk across the battlefield to kill him. He doesn't care about Angrod particularly. He wants to kill Elves. This would result in a buildup where we "owe " the Balrogs a death. Next time, we let them take more lives.

We have plenty of chances for that, since Gothmog plows through Fingon's bodyguard in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Of course it'll be a show of Fingon's own martial prowess that he will be able to withstand Gothmog, who requires another Balrog to assist him tying up Fingon before he can be killed.

 

[Haakon]

Let’s focus on the Dagor Aglareb and how to make the most solid arguments for keeping Angrod alive.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Let’s focus on the Dagor Aglareb and how to make the most solid arguments for keeping Angrod alive.

Hit him on the head to knock him out?