The Stockade

Odola

Well-Known Member
It seems like this tends to happen when a river has been traveling the same course for a _very_ long time. Perhaps if it were caught sometime earlier than when we are observing these rivers, the height would be less intense.
As far I see from your photos - when the rock it that hard to withstand the elements so much barely anything can grow on top of the plain above.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
As far I see from your photos - when the rock it that hard to withstand the elements so much barely anything can grow on top of the plain above.
It's a generally arid environment, so the lack of vegetation you're seeing likely has as much or more to do with that.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I like it.I'd like the main gate not bei g central but on one edge, possibly a bit less easily accessable.The haladin would try to use any landscape feature that can give them a sloght advance if possible.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
I like it.I'd like the main gate not bei g central but on one edge, possibly a bit less easily accessable.The haladin would try to use any landscape feature that can give them a sloght advance if possible.
The only thing I have not localised it yet, have only the photo of the information table.

Found it, the main river is too far away today - moved away in the meantime. Above Château de Campagne

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Odola

Well-Known Member
Examples of neolithic longhouses. The trenches next to the house walls are suspected to partially be the source of the wall construction material.
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http://www.landschaftsmuseum.de/Bilder/Bandkeramisches_Haus-2.jpg from http://www.landschaftsmuseum.de/Seiten/Lexikon/Neolithisierung.htm
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https://web.rgzm.de/fileadmin/Gruppen/Verlag/PDF-Dateien/Open_Access/Detlef-Gronenborn_Faszination-Jungsteinzeit.pdf there the longest one is 52m which is ca 170 feet.
[I have read about one being 71m at one time but now I cannot find the reference.]

http://www.archaeopro.de/archaeopro/Strukturen/Langhaus1/Langhaus1-Rek.htm [Whole construction models]1625066433367.png
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I like how that last image shows painted decorations on the longhouse; we will want that on this one too.

I had not considered trenches around the hall; just in front of the stockade. I am a bit confused why they would be necessary for the construction, but it wouldn't be a problem if it is. I think there is only one reference to the sides of the hall - at one point, the weapons for the defense of the stockade are stacked there.


I am taking a look at river junctions along the Gunnison and Colorado rivers right now. I think that the scenery there is beautiful and rugged and conveys a sufficiently hostile environment for this part of the story.

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Gunnison River in Delta County, Colorado:


Gunnison River near Montrose:


The East - Taylor Rivers confluence (beginning of the Gunnison) is in the town of Almont, and there is a bridge across the East River near the junction. While there may be some possible establishing shot there, it would likely be difficult to work around.
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Roubideau Creek seems to have a bridge crossing it right where it meets the Gunnison river, but the nearby Seep Creek/Gunnison confluence may be more promising:

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Confluence Park, where the Uncompahgre River flows into the Gunnison near Delta, CO.

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There are a few more promising sites to check out as well. South Beaver Creek meets the Gunnison here:

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The next step is to get some photos of these places that wasn't taken by a satellite ;).
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
If you are into several location for different shots, here is a gorgeous location, but the rivers moved farther away from this over the millenia:
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This video has English subtitles available.

There are several places of this kind in France, but the old problem, rivers do change their courses over time.
But if one needs it just for certain shots, this one could work to an extent.

@MithLuin

Those "trenches" were places where the bulders took the dirt to cover the walls with from. See their actual shape (I have marked them in yellow). Why making it harder for themselves than what they really had to do?
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Odola

Well-Known Member
I am taking a look at river junctions along the Gunnison and Colorado rivers right now. I think that the scenery there is beautiful and rugged and conveys a sufficiently hostile environment for this part of the story.

Gunnison River in Delta County, Colorado:

Gunnison River near Montrose:

The East - Taylor Rivers confluence (beginning of the Gunnison) is in the town of Almont, and there is a bridge across the East River near the junction. While there may be some possible establishing shot there, it would likely be difficult to work around.

Roubideau Creek seems to have a bridge crossing it right where it meets the Gunnison river, but the nearby Seep Creek/Gunnison confluence may be more promising:

Confluence Park, where the Uncompahgre River flows into the Gunnison near Delta, CO.

There are a few more promising sites to check out as well. South Beaver Creek meets the Gunnison here:

The next step is to get some photos of these places that wasn't taken by a satellite ;).
How about the confluence of Ardèche and La Ligne ?
It is the other way round - the smaller river joins on the right (flowing direction, on the map below it is left), but this could be mirrored.
The cliff are very high though. (Gorge de l'Ardèche is a completely magical landcape)
44.4788273778198, 4.338953710751893

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Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I don't now...

Most of these Places look FAR to epic for the place i had in mind.I get it that Haldad would choose some more elevated location, but why would he choose such an epic cliffside/Plateau?
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
I don't now...

Most of these Places look FAR to epic for the place i had in mind.I get it that Haldad would choose some more elevated location, but why would he choose such an epic cliffside/Plateau?
You can see the enemy from afar? I doubt he would discount an area for being "too epic" ? A long as it is defensible?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
You can see the enemy from afar? I doubt he would discount an area for being "too epic" ? A long as it is defensible?
Sure, but he for some reason chose a confluence of two rivers, and i had my theory why he did so.The enemy comes from north, so opposite from the confluence.Then why didn't he simply choose a hill?

I am not against epic landscapes per se, nor against steep cliffsides... but i think a steep cliffside would make most sense facing to the north, towards the enemy... the confluence could then serve both, as a restriction towards Orcs and creatures of darkness and as a possible escape route via the rivers for his people...
 
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Odola

Well-Known Member
Sure, but he for some reason chose a confluence of two rivers, and i had my theory why he did so.The enemy comes from north, so opposite from the confluence.Then why didn't he simply choose a hill?

I am not against epic landscapes per se, nor against steep cliffsides... but i think a steep cliffside would make most sense facing to the north, towards the enemy... the confluence cpuld then serve both, as a restriction towards Orcs and creatures of darkness and as a üossible escape route via the rivers for his people...
O.k.
But it is very difficult to find cliffs at a confluence which are not eroded away, or the rivers have not moved away from, where the top is flat and not overgrown or overbuild and which are not steep.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
It is just... Haldad should not look stupid.He should not give the Orcs a broad side ,easily accessable to attack while his own people can't escape because they are bound by a steep cliffside.

He would look,for a place that is hard for the orcs to get to, which he can easily defend with a stockade, but his own folk may still be able to get away should he fail, not being caught in a death-trap.

Beside this i like a lot of the pictures so far... de la rina included, i just believe the cliff is to the wrong side.
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
While I am still leaning towards the Iceland and Colorado locations, it occurred to me that there is some pretty spectacular landscape in Chile worth checking out. Patagonia is far enough south to have the correct type of vegetation and climate for what we are looking for, I think. And the advantage here is that there are a lot of river splits, creating islands that can give the type of topography we're looking for. I want to find a spot that's not too mountainous, to get the right balance, but as long as there is a relatively stable looking plateau above, I think it might work.


Torres Del Paine National Park








Parque Nacional Yendegaia



I don't know if there is a time of year when the glacial melt makes these rivers more impressive, but if so, this would be a rather interesting spot!

Conguillio National Park

This river might be an okay stand in for the Ascar, but it's definitely no Gelion. There are larger waterways in this park, though.


There's likely something suitable in Parque Nacional Isla Magdalena, as well, but I haven't found any good photos yet.


Here is an aerial video of the confluence of the Baker and Neff Rivers in Patagonia:
The Baker River is blue, while the Neff river is grey, so it is easy to see the waters mingling nicely. What I had not considered before was that it is possible the Ascar has rapids/waterfall descending to the level of the Gelion. It would make sense.
Here is a photo taken from the vantage point of the people seen in that drone footage:


 
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