Unalligned Characters
- Thread starter Haerangil
- Start date
I consider those lists as a good pool of names we can draw from as needed. It's okay if they're not all going to wind up being part of the project.
When J. K. Rowling was writing the Harry Potter books, she listed the names of every student in Harry's year at Hogwarts for herself (the class list). Naturally, some of them never appeared in the books, or were mentioned as only the most minor of characters (a player on a Quidditch team during a match, etc). But this gave her a 'class list' to refer to, so that when she wanted to grab a character, she had the name ready to go. Sometimes she also developed a bit of back story as to who the character was. Thus she has a lot of 'supplemental information' (Dean Thomas' backstory/family of origin, for instance) that was never included in the novels.
We can do that if we want...develop a whole cadre of background characters in each of the (many) settings in our project. We might find that we have a niche role for some of them to slip into. It might not be much (if we invent an involved back story and family tree, that likely wouldn't ever be incorporated), but something as simple as the guy who comes up to take the horses to the stable every time travellers arrive. What do (former) mariners do in Gondolin? Worldbuilding exercises help us to really understand our culture, so the little fish market we put at the base of the hill Tírion was built on became a little joke we added in.
I don't typically like when a main character is used as comic relief exclusively (so, for instance, Peter Jackson's treatment of Gimli), though I am fine with characters being a mix between humorous and serious (like Pippin, who has many comic moments, but is not simply a 'fool of a Took'). But for a background character, I don't mind. So, if we had someone who was always trying to do *some task*, and every time they were on screen, their task was ruined and they were in despair over it, I'd be fine with that sort of running gag.
The Cabbage Merchant:
If this were a main character, it would be tragic. Since it's only someone in the background, it's a joke. We don't want to make a joke out of serious things like death, but we probably could make a joke out of trying to build a wall, and every time, it gets knocked down. Or whatever. Some Sisyphean task.
The only reappearing super minor character like this we have so far is Tom Bombadil, who gets a completely unexplained cameo once per season.
When J. K. Rowling was writing the Harry Potter books, she listed the names of every student in Harry's year at Hogwarts for herself (the class list). Naturally, some of them never appeared in the books, or were mentioned as only the most minor of characters (a player on a Quidditch team during a match, etc). But this gave her a 'class list' to refer to, so that when she wanted to grab a character, she had the name ready to go. Sometimes she also developed a bit of back story as to who the character was. Thus she has a lot of 'supplemental information' (Dean Thomas' backstory/family of origin, for instance) that was never included in the novels.
We can do that if we want...develop a whole cadre of background characters in each of the (many) settings in our project. We might find that we have a niche role for some of them to slip into. It might not be much (if we invent an involved back story and family tree, that likely wouldn't ever be incorporated), but something as simple as the guy who comes up to take the horses to the stable every time travellers arrive. What do (former) mariners do in Gondolin? Worldbuilding exercises help us to really understand our culture, so the little fish market we put at the base of the hill Tírion was built on became a little joke we added in.
I don't typically like when a main character is used as comic relief exclusively (so, for instance, Peter Jackson's treatment of Gimli), though I am fine with characters being a mix between humorous and serious (like Pippin, who has many comic moments, but is not simply a 'fool of a Took'). But for a background character, I don't mind. So, if we had someone who was always trying to do *some task*, and every time they were on screen, their task was ruined and they were in despair over it, I'd be fine with that sort of running gag.
The Cabbage Merchant:
If this were a main character, it would be tragic. Since it's only someone in the background, it's a joke. We don't want to make a joke out of serious things like death, but we probably could make a joke out of trying to build a wall, and every time, it gets knocked down. Or whatever. Some Sisyphean task.
The only reappearing super minor character like this we have so far is Tom Bombadil, who gets a completely unexplained cameo once per season.
My thoughts are exactly this.
Having or keeping track of background details, either in advance or as they're invented on the fly, is also a good way to avoid accidentally contradicting them. Fans like me who notice contradictions in details get annoyed, or even have their suspension of disbelief spoiled a little.
I also wouldn't want any character except the most minor to be used solely for jokes.
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Haerangil
Well-Known Member
As i am still writing fanfic here two possible shortbios for two opposed Noldorin exiles.
I'm not proposing we use them or make them main characters, rather these two are examples of shortbios for possible side-characters:
Mayarosse tatayondo is Maidros, son of Tata, father of Finwe.I know in OUR version there are no dads and granddads to Finwe, ingwe et. Co. And the Elves spent little time at Cuivienen to bear children or sire new generations. However in MY fanfic that is completely different
I'm not proposing we use them or make them main characters, rather these two are examples of shortbios for possible side-characters:
Note:
Mayarosse tatayondo is Maidros, son of Tata, father of Finwe.I know in OUR version there are no dads and granddads to Finwe, ingwe et. Co. And the Elves spent little time at Cuivienen to bear children or sire new generations. However in MY fanfic that is completely different
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Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Galdor was going to be my suggestion, though we need to keep an eye on this. He is currently the only one for Cirdan to talk to.
Haerangil
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but there are lots of mariners around which c ould easily replace him.. we have Earendils entire possible later crew and we have Arminas and Gelmir who will have to be introduced at some point.. and we might have Aranwe, a Noldo who maybe -at least for some time-crosses over to the Sindar and livescamong them (marrying an unnamed Sinda woman)... Aranwe and the Mariners are pure free choice so far... but Arminas and Gelmir will have to be cast and appear anyway atvsome point..
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
The latest we can possibly cast Arminas and Gelmir would have to be Season 8, since I presume we will reach the Children of Húrin by that point.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
It seems that the Dagor Bragollach will be the Season 5 finale, then Season 6 will be Beren and Luthien, I’ve assumed that the events leading up to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad will be a season, then Turin (Season 8), then the events of the Wanderings of Hurin and the Ruin of Doriath (Season 9), and then Tuor (Season 10). Gelmir and Arminas make an appearance in Turin’s story (appears first in The Silmarillion) and accompany Voronwe and Tuor to Gondolin (occurs earlier, but appears later in The Silmarillion).
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
We will likely go right from from the Dagor Bragollach to Beren and Luthien, but the Nirnaeth has a lot more material than is immediately apparent. It seems like it is just a single engagement, but given the size of the operation and the logistical challenges involved, it is clearly more of a campaign.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Regarding the events between the Dagor Bragollach, I guess we'll skip over from Hador to Hurin in the line of the House of Hador's succession, Hurin and Huor's visit to Gondolin, and the taking of Tol Sirion by Sauron?
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. We might have more than one story going on in that season.
To clarify, the Dagor Bragollach will happen at the end of Season 5, but likely in Episode 12. I suspect that we will have an entire episode of 'aftermath,' culminating in Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth. So, we'd have the opportunity to show Sauron taking Tol Sirion there.
I am not sure exactly when 'Huor and Hurin in Gondolin' will fit, but we will no doubt find a place for that! I think we probably do need a full Season for Beren and Luthien, but...when do we cut that off? What is the final scene? The two of them in Ossiriand, or..? We might very well start Nirnaeth Arnoediad preparations, or in some other way begin to set up future stories then. Huor and Hurin in Gondolin might fit in the season 5 finale or the season 6 opening.
We have not yet discussed on the podcast how we're handling Turin and Tuor (separate seasons or combined somehow), or where the season breaks will occur for later Seasons. It makes sense to plan out Season 5 and see how the stories of Men go before making those choices, I think.
I am not sure exactly when 'Huor and Hurin in Gondolin' will fit, but we will no doubt find a place for that! I think we probably do need a full Season for Beren and Luthien, but...when do we cut that off? What is the final scene? The two of them in Ossiriand, or..? We might very well start Nirnaeth Arnoediad preparations, or in some other way begin to set up future stories then. Huor and Hurin in Gondolin might fit in the season 5 finale or the season 6 opening.
We have not yet discussed on the podcast how we're handling Turin and Tuor (separate seasons or combined somehow), or where the season breaks will occur for later Seasons. It makes sense to plan out Season 5 and see how the stories of Men go before making those choices, I think.
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Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Is it possible to introduce Beren during the Season 5 finale, since he is also fighting during the Dagor Bragollach alongside his father? Or will we be introducing him as part of the Band of 12 in Dorthonion?
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
It is certainly possible. And it will definitely be part of the conversation when we get there.