Weapon & Armor systems; Tactical Styles in Middle Earth

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
If I may ask, what are Haleth and Boldog using for weapons when they fight in Season 5, Episode 4?
We gave her a signature spear (probably of Dwarven make), the haft of which is broken in the leadup to her killing Tevildo. She could replace the broken end later, or cap it off to make something like an iklwa. Boldog's weapon wasn't important to the story at this time.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
We gave her a signature spear (probably of Dwarven make), the haft of which is broken in the leadup to her killing Tevildo. She could replace the broken end later, or cap it off to make something like an iklwa. Boldog's weapon wasn't important to the story at this time.
And a shield?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I’ll admit I’m disappointed; having a sword would make it easier to figure out the choreography.

Ah well, I guess I’ll make the most of it.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I’ll admit I’m disappointed; having a sword would make it easier to figure out the choreography.

Ah well, I guess I’ll make the most of it.
Well, as it stands, it's not much of a fight. Also, spears are extremely ubiquitous as primary weapons. Swords would look even more out of place in a Neolithic, non-martial society like the newly arrived Haladin.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Well, as it stands, it's not much of a fight. Also, spears are extremely ubiquitous as primary weapons. Swords would look even more out of place in a Neolithic, non-martial society like the newly arrived Haladin.
Right.

So if she's using a spear, how is she using it? Two-handed, point forward, or two-handed like a quarterstaff (Sojutsu)?
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
Has there been any discussion of various orc cultures and armour/weaponry. One of the things I think worked really well about the Jackson films was how easy it was to identify not just orc arbour and weapons from those of other races, but also to differentiate between orc groups. And also detailing spoke to culture in ways I’d not considered. Having black speech etched into leather opens lots of questions about skill and construction. Do we ever address orc society and family groups. Are orc weapons ever passed on? Are they issued out? Do certain orcs act as blacksmith or do individual orcs fashion their own weapons? Which begs the question whether their is even uniformity to the designs of weapons and armour? And are all those topics different for different subsets of orcs?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Has there been any discussion of various orc cultures and armour/weaponry. One of the things I think worked really well about the Jackson films was how easy it was to identify not just orc arbour and weapons from those of other races, but also to differentiate between orc groups. And also detailing spoke to culture in ways I’d not considered. Having black speech etched into leather opens lots of questions about skill and construction. Do we ever address orc society and family groups. Are orc weapons ever passed on? Are they issued out? Do certain orcs act as blacksmith or do individual orcs fashion their own weapons? Which begs the question whether their is even uniformity to the designs of weapons and armour? And are all those topics different for different subsets of orcs?
At this time, the Orcs are a pretty uniform group. They're all stationed in and supplied from Angband. This would make the idea that they are constructing their own weapons and armor pretty inefficient. There would likely be a smithing and labor class, alongside the captive slaves in Angband.

As to family groups, we've left the question of Orc reproduction more or less unanswered. If left up to me, I would say that during this time, and likely until the defeat of Morgoth in the War of Wrath, there are no Orc families. Young Orcs are raised and "cared for" collectively. Later on, there might be family structures as the Orcish diaspora occurs and before Sauron rises to power.

So for right now, there are likely specialized armors and weapons for specialized soldiers, but all armor and weapons are made from the same set of specifications. There will likely be different sets of insignia for different units for the sake of organization.

Now, there will be a change in S06. For the first time, there are Orcs stationed in places other than Angband. Tol-in-Gaurhoth and Taur-nu-fuin are good examples of this. They may have their own manufacturing centers to protect supply lines, but the question is whether or not enough time passes for them to innovate their own designs. I'd argue that this does happen in Tol-in-Gaurhoth. Whether it happens in Taur-nu-fuin, I'm less certain.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
I really like the suggestion by of orcs having a caste system and maybe being more akin to a hive group like certain insects. Although there will be significant individual orcs which is intriguing.

Clearly orcs have heroes, like Gorgol the Butcher. The idea of an orc legend is fascinating. Orc songs and orc epic poetry?how terrifying might that be? And what would the armour of an orc hero be like? Simple I would guess? Unadorned maybe? Or made of fallen foes?

Makes me interested in orc socio-political structure. With Sauron’s propensity to connive and lie and pit groups against one another, I want to know what Sauron promised orcs that swore fealty to him. Autonomy? Glory? Dental care?
 
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Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I would also say, Orcs in angband is probably "barracks communism" as Karl Marx would call it.pretty much sums it up.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Has there been any discussion of various orc cultures and armour/weaponry. One of the things I think worked really well about the Jackson films was how easy it was to identify not just orc arbour and weapons from those of other races, but also to differentiate between orc groups. And also detailing spoke to culture in ways I’d not considered. Having black speech etched into leather opens lots of questions about skill and construction. Do we ever address orc society and family groups. Are orc weapons ever passed on? Are they issued out? Do certain orcs act as blacksmith or do individual orcs fashion their own weapons? Which begs the question whether their is even uniformity to the designs of weapons and armour? And are all those topics different for different subsets of orcs?
The Jackson films also made a distinct difference between Orcs and Goblins; Goblins are smaller, mostly paler, unarmored, and mostly unable to operate in the sunlight while Orcs are typically bigger, armored, and merely bothered by the light. Azog’s design is intended to be a reference to Orcs being corrupted and mutilated Elves, with a more upright posture so that he resembles an animalistic Elf.
 
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Rob Harding

Active Member
I really love Azog’s design. There’s often a temptation to make a significant adversary the most armoured, ornate, extravagant villain. Far more memorable though to show them not needing armour. Thanks in Infinity War was scary for his stillness and utter confidence. Reflected by ditching his armour. I also like in the Jackson films that Uruk Hai only had armoured fronts as the thought was that they’d never run from a fight.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I think Azog was terrible. Did not like him or Gothmog at all.

The Goblins were allright, the Uruks too, but my favourite orcs were always the lesser Snaga-Orcs, my least favourite ones those stupid skeleton-like Morannon orcs.

My fav Orcs from the films were actually Grishnakh, Snaga and Gorbag.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
Intrigued as to why you didn’t like Gothmog? Such a minor role.

Azog I think did a good job of showing an elevated truly adversarial orc. Hero-level orc of you will. Really good choice to sustain as a background threat.

Yeah, the Snaga orcs were great!
 
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