Whoops! Script Discussion S04E10

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
In the script discussion for this episode, we answered a very important question regarding Finrod and Turgon's dreams sent by Ulmo: What kind of pajamas were they wearing?

Turgon has pajamas with suns, moons, and hearts all over them, like the heraldry of his house in Gondolin.

Finrod has pajamas based on the ring he will eventually give to Barahir: a snake suit with flowers.

I thought this called for an illustration.

IMG_2443E.jpg
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
That is a very important question! What kind of pyjamas do elves wear!

Originally pyjama was a very light long and wide trouser, i could imagine elves wearing that!

On the other hand i could think they were long, light nightshirts, like the classic nighshirts or nightgowns of the 16th century, with beautiful embroidery or similar to negliges... i could also imagine them sleeping nude, but having something similar to a yukata close by in case they need to get up all of a sudden.

I wonder:do they wear nightcaps? We know many elves have very long hair with jewels knotted in and everything, must be impractical in many situations...
 
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Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Should Rochallor be among the horses Maedhros gives to Fingon this episode, or should Fingolfin already have him?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Should Rochallor be among the horses Maedhros gives to Fingon this episode, or should Fingolfin already have him?
I say that he's already been Fingolfin's, if he didn't die in the Helcaraxe (I don't remember if all the animals with the Fingolfinians died). It could highlight Rochallor's bond with Fingolfin, particularly with Fingolfin's final journey to Angband to challenge Morgoth with Rochallor staying until Fingolfin died, then reaching Hithlum and dying, his heart broken.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I say that he's already been Fingolfin's, if he didn't die in the Helcaraxe. It could highlight Rochallor's bond with Fingolfin, particularly with Fingolfin's final journey to Angband to challenge Morgoth with Rochallor staying until Fingolfin died, then reaching Hithlum and dying, his heart broken.
I actually just wrote the scene for this, and I have Fingon going up to Rochallor, being told by Celegorm that Rochallor would be a good horse for him, but declaring that Rochallor should be Fingolfin's horse instead. I kind of like the moment with Fingon and Rochallor because it could foreshadow the moment with Fingon and Rochallor when Rochallor returns to Hithlum after Fingolfin is dead. However, if you feel strongly about having Rochallor already be with Fingolfin, I would be happy to change it.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I actually just wrote the scene for this, and I have Fingon going up to Rochallor, being told by Celegorm that Rochallor would be a good horse for him, but declaring that Rochallor should be Fingolfin's horse instead. I kind of like the moment with Fingon and Rochallor because it could foreshadow the moment with Fingon and Rochallor when Rochallor returns to Hithlum after Fingolfin is dead. However, if you feel strongly about having Rochallor already be with Fingolfin, I would be happy to change it.
I'm not sure either way. You can do as you see fit.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Here are my Episode 10 scripts. One has Angrod, and the other does not. Please let me know what you think of them.

I wanted the audience to identify with the Noldor who were reluctant to accept the Ban, so I had most of the conversations in the first two scenes take place in subtitled Sindarin so the English phrases that represent Quenya would seem most familiar to viewers.

I switched the Turgon scene to the third scene in Act I instead of the fourth scene because I thought a change of location would make the change from having English represent Quenya to having it represent Sindarin make more sense.

I liked the symmetry of Dwalin being the last of Bilbo's old companions he meets again in Dale. I know I implied that he met Dwalin in Episode 4, but I plan to go back and change that to one of the other Dwarves.

I made the Khuzdul inscription on Narsil "Narsil I am, the bane of Sauron. The old sword of my owner was broken by him, and him I shall slay, even if I be broken myself." This doesn't necessarily need to be subtitled if we don't want to reveal that much of the future.

I made the Quenya inscription on Narsil "Bright is my flame, and high is my fate."
 

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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
We decided all animals would die on the Helcaraxe.

Are we really going to have a horse live over 200 years?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Huan is almost definitely a Maia follower of Orome.

Rochallor is a mearas, sure, but immortal?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I don’t think longer lifespans than regular horses would be unreasonable for the mearas to have, but I can easily take out Rochallor’s name and have Fingon say that his descendants will serve Fingolfin.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
We can't have Huan as a Maia if we had him as a puppy, which means he was born to a mother... Faelivrin at an early time pointed out that good Ainur don't do "such things" in animal form:cool:

So he's either an animal which was gifted with a sort of soul like the great eagles or he was not born.
Same rules would be for the elf-horses or Nahar...
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
We can't have Huan as a Maia if we had him as a puppy, which means he was born to a mother... Faelivrin at an early time pointed out that good Ainur don't do "such things" in animal form:cool:

So he's either an animal which was gifted with a sort of soul like the great eagles or he was not born.
Same rules would be for the elf-horses or Nahar...
It does seem that Tolkien grappled with the nature of Huan, with the earlier versions as a dog-shaped Maia and the later ones a particularly intelligent (and long-lived) animal.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
He starts off as a clever beast, briefly is thought of as a maia and returns to be a clever beast.Though maybe "of immortal race"... the problem of spirit and soul, same old thing as with Werewolves, Dragons, Orcs etc.


Why i still prefer these mysterious not to be solved by us.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
The problem is that there are philosophical issues when sentient creatures' spirits have indeterminate origins. This bothers me a lot more then choosing one of Tolkien's origins even if he didn't settle on it. I don't think the story suffers at all as a result of Huan being a Maia any more than it does with the Wizards being Maiar.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I am fine with Nahar being immortal. And it is true that Gandalf takes Shadowfax with him on the ship at the end, so we don't know his lifespan for certain. But, in general, I don't think the mearas are immortal.

The lifespan of a normal horse is 20 to 30 years. I am fine with the mearas living longer than that. I just wanted us to think carefully before making a horse live for 200+ years when these are normal breeding animals.
 
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