After rewatching first three episodes...

[Rob Harding]

I just all-round loved the show. It just was my cup of tea. I just enjoyed the characters and writing, pacing and visuals and editing. I've not gone back to rewatch but probably will. I'll let you know if my views are altered on a rewatch, as a kind of peer control group

 

[Ilana Mushin]

One thing I will be looking out for in S2 is evidence for how S1 was impacted by COVID. I suspect that things like the sizes of crowds, complexity of sets and locations was hampered by COVID restrictions in NZ at the time of filming.

 

[Haerangil]

We'll see...

 

[David_M_R]

I largely agree with DolorousStroke. The season was described by the showrunners as a set-up for the entire story, and I still hope and trust that from s2 onward, where they have said it will be more based on the text(s), things will improve.

I also agree with Rob. A lot of the problems people have with the show just didn't bother me. The only thing I was greatly disappointed in was using the callback to Jackson's Gandalf for the Stranger. The mithril healing the leaf was a bit silly, when the show told us (through Elrond) that the Song of the Roots of Hithaeglir was apocryphal (and Gil-galad doesn't deny this!). Most of the things I appreciate are failings are really second-hand opinions from people who I trust know more than me about how tv is supposed to work (since I don't actually watch much at all, of any sort), and who are more picky than me about adaptation.

 

[Odola]

I largely agree with DolorousStroke. The season was described by the showrunners as a set-up for the entire story, and I still hope and trust that from s2 onward, where they have said it will be more based on the text(s), things will improve.

I also agree with Rob. A lot of the problems people have with the show just didn't bother me. The only thing I was greatly disappointed in was using the callback to Jackson's Gandalf for the Stranger. The mithril healing the leaf was a bit silly, when the show told us (through Elrond) that the Song of the Roots of Hithaeglir was apocryphal (and Gil-galad doesn't deny this!). Most of the things I appreciate are failings are really second-hand opinions from people who I trust know more than me about how tv is supposed to work (since I don't actually watch much at all, of any sort), and who are more picky than me about adaptation.

My problem is that if they are opening their game like this (like in a chess game) that then they simply cannot win this game without massively cheating at least several times on the way. As such there simply must be more and more heavy rule-breaking to follow... O.k. make it a pastiche then, but at least make it make sense in itself... And at the moment it doesn't. And if they were to suddendy start to follow "the Lore" now, this would completely break what has been already set up in Season One.

 

[Haerangil]

Was it a good setup?

 

[Ilana Mushin]

I don’t think we are able to assess whether it is a good setup yet overall. We’d have to look back with hindsight over the whole story. My own opinion (which is no more than that) is that as of now, I feel that most storylines are established enough to launch into a next phase in S2.

For example, we know that Sauron has been trying to ‘heal’ Middle-earth and that Adar rebelled against whatever he was trying to do in the North and usurped Sauron’s plan for Mordor. We know that Mordor is established as a home for Orcs. We know that Numenor is a civilisation that projects power and greatness but is culturally entering into a bad place. We know that the people who used to live in what is now Mordor have evacuated to the mouths of the Anduin with some Numenoreans, setting up proto-Gondor and also the interactions between Numenor and humans in Middle-earth. We know that we leave Durin and Disa heading down a dark road, being possessive of Mithril, setting up the next phase of their story. We know that Nori and the Stranger are off to Rhun, which is already populated by Sauron-worshippers.

The Elf storyline is the one least set up for me I feel, and so I hope they will be filling this in in S2. If the making of the other Rings of Power are a key part of S2, leading up to the forging of The One Ring, then I expect to see a lot more of the Elves of Lindon and Eregion in S2.

I also see S1 as the ‘Galadriel’ story - this was the character who we spent most time with and showed the most growth (I know not everyone sees her this way). She still has a ways to go and I expect that she will still be a major character throughout all seasons. I think they have set up S2 to be Sauron’s story, which may well include starting the season at a time prior to the start of S1 and this may be how we get to the Annatar story and how Sauron got on a raft disguised as Halbrand).

So far I don’t see any radical departures from Tolkien’s writings on the Second Age as far as these story setups go apart from aligning the times of the making of the RoP and the fall of Numenor (I have no issue at all with that decision).

The story of Mithril I agree seems problematic and I’m personally not keen on the story of the roots of the Hithaeglir, but Elrond also sees it that way so I am taking a ‘wait and see’ approach. Mithril, as Tolkien wrote it, is clearly very special and has qualities that no other metal has - and Sauron ‘coveted’ it, we are told. I see the show as trying to explore what in particular is special about it.

 

[Haerangil]

So, we can not judge season 1 for what it was? At all?

 

[Ilana Mushin]

So, we can not judge season 1 for what it was? At all?

I wasn’t suggesting that. I’m just suggesting that however we feel now about S1 may change as the story develops, so it is hard to know if they have been successful in setting up the rest of the story until we have seen the rest of the story. For example, at the moment I can accept Halbrand/Sauron on the raft because I’m assuming that we will find out that backstory at some point and then it will make sense. If they never give us this backstory, then I’ll be unsatisfied with how they handled things in S1. But I have to wait to give them a chance to tell us that part of the story.

I was just trying to summarise what I feel we have been presented with as the set up for S2, based on where we left the main characters at the end of S1. As far as assessment goes, I was satisfied with where it left off with my main disappointment leveled at the underdeveloped Elf plot line (Gil-galad, Celebrimbor etc), where I feel they rushed things and left too many questions dangling (which I expect sleuth-Elrond will unpack in time). The other plot lines all established the core cultures of the different groups, introduced us to many main characters and left them at points where I’m curious to find out what happens next.

Many shows that I have liked don’t really get started on the gripping part of the story until the second season, using the first season to find their feet and to set things up. In retrospect that may be how S1 will be viewed - but we won’t know until we see the rest of the show.

 

[Haerangil]

I never had any problem with Halbrand being on that raft.He is a Maia ,he can be wherever he wants to be and why not. I had a problem with men from southland being on a raft just off Lindon, nowhere near Southland, no reason given except these are refugees.. from where, to where? Huh? Why should men from Southland get on a ship and go towards Lindon?

It is a weird jump of scenarios. Just like Galadriels weird conclusions about that man, which do not make sense to me storywise at all. Just as i find the passing of time weird... time passes totally different on Numenor, amongbthe Harfoots, between Gilgalad and Durin and innthe southlands.This has zero to do with any setup or anything not being told yet but with the in-world geography and storytelling logic.And i can judge all of that by what were given at just this point.And i can not just ignore or see past these issues... they're nagging me.

 

[Odola]

I never had any problem with Halbrand being on that raft.He is a Maia ,he can be wherever he wants to be and why not. I had a problem with men from southland being on a raft just off Lindon, nowhere near Southland, no reason given except these are refugees.. from where, to where? Huh? Why should men from Southland get on a ship and go towards Lindon?

I have no problem with those "people", he is a necromancer - to me they are just phantoms, some extras he arranged for his performance in front of Galadriel.

Just like Galadriels weird conclusions about that man, which do not make sense to me storywise at all.

Either she tricks him by pretending to play along or she is just plain dumb.
But why would she continue to play dumb also when he is not present? The second option regrettably seems far more likely...

 

[Haerangil]

I have no problem with those "people", he is a necromancer - to me they are just phantoms, some extras he arranged for his performance in front of Galadriel.

Sure, but why would elves so easily believe such a scenario? It really didn't convince me there were no questions at all.

The second thing bothered me most about G..Apart from her mean behaviour.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

My original contribution in this thread was specifically about the set up for future seasons. That’s why I was focussed on that. We’ve already established in earlier threads that Galadriel is a characters that divides viewers.
Concerning the raft: I’m not going to be satisfied with a story that put Sauron on a raft because he is powerful enough to do what he wants. I figure tghe raft is some where in the Equatorial region since this is where the boat to Valinor is headed and Numenor is in that kind of latitude. So everyone has drifted south.

 

[Haerangil]

I did not abandon the topic of setup, i was merely contextualising it's details...

How does Galadriels ship get into the equatorial regions? Its supposed to be off Lindon... even Gondor is far north of the equator. If its a set up they also need to set up the geography right.

 

[Odola]

I did not abandon the topic of setup, i was merely contextualising it's details...

How does Galadriels ship get into the equatorial regions? Its supposed to be off Lindon... even Gondor is far north of the equator. If its a set up they also need to set up the geography right.

Tol Eressëa seems quite equatorial on most of the maps... And this is the first stop upon arrival - usually.
Sauron could very well been on a ship to Valinor with his servant spirits if he wanted to repent. And then Ossë made sure that he never arrives - out of sheer spite...

 

[Ilana Mushin]

I don’t see the problem with a ship leaving Lindon and heading Southwest.

I’m confused though. How does this affect the setup for Season 2?

 

[Odola]

I’m confused though. How does this affect the setup for Season 2?

I think the problem is that it is unclear where the (assumedly human) refuggees on Halbrand's raft came from and where they wanted to go to - if Pelargir has been abandoned in the meantime like Bronwyn had said. This was not setup at all as we do not know of any other human settlements - neither in future Gondor, nor in Dunland or higher up in Eriador nor around future Umbar nor further South in Harad proper. So the setup for Season 2 in this regard is simply not existant.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

I think the problem is that it is unclear where the (assumedly human) refuggees on Halbrand's raft came from and where they wanted to go to - if Pelargir has been abandoned in the meantime like Bronwyn had said. This was not setup at all as we do not know of any other human settlements - neither in future Gondor, nor in Dunland or higher up in Eriador nor around future Umbar nor further South in Harad proper. So the setup for Season 2 in this regard is simply not existant.

This may have been dissatisfying in the S1 story (not having information about these random Southlanders), but I don’t see this as a problem transitioning into S2 - just some gaps that need filling at some point. We know there are civilisations beyond the maps because of the inclusion of Rhun as a place. I expect Harad will come into the story at some point too. We saw Southlander-type humans in the opening scene with the Harfoots so that tells me that there are human poplulations scattered all around that side of the Misty Mountains. We know that they are a scattered lot, lacking a king that they used to have - but this is history when the S1 story opens. Eriador is a massive forest at this point in ME history and we know from Elrond’s offer of wood to Durin III that the Elves are in control of at least some of that. There may be humans there too, but we haven’t been to that part of ME yet in the story.

We don’t know precisely where in the Southlands the humans on the raft were from. They are dressed like southlanders, but it is only Halbrand who actually mentions the Southlands, and that’s after the rest of the humans have been killed. I don’t think they are necessarily from the place that is now Mordor.

I agree that there are a lot of things that are not clear yet - but do they need to be clear 20% of the way into the story?

 

[Haerangil]

If its supposed to be a set up then it seems strange to tease things that do not play into the whole game.I wonder what they come up with.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

If its supposed to be a set up then it seems strange to tease things that do not play into the whole game.I wonder what they come up with.

I also wonder what they will come up with. I also agree that it would be strange to tease things that do not play into the whole game, as you say. But I don't think that's what they are doing. They have planned this out as a 5 season story from the start so it seems reasonable to me that some aspects of the story might seem random now but will eventually resolve and become clear as the seasons progress.