Oops! Season 1: Episode 11 Script Discussion

MithLuin

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True, she would have room to voice her opinion on the dwarves at that first dinner, and if there is any change in her take on them, we would see that during the farewell. I'm not sure if Estel's enthusiasm would encourage or discourage her from liking dwarves ;).
 

MithLuin

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I would think that most non-dwarves would be fairly distrustful of the dwarves, who of course keep to themselves all the time.
 

Ange1e4e5

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Still doesn't sound like Gilraen, otherwise she wouldn't have trusted Elrond with Estel, would she?
 

Haakon

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She could trust elves, and Elrond in particular, but not dwarves. Or she could feel that the dwarves are Elrond's guests and that their visit is some kind of formal occation which she and her son, being lodgers in Rivendell, perhaps should stay away from. Well, maybe that doesn't sense. But the fact is that we have a situation with Gilraen and her son in Rivendell, Thorin and Company arriving and staying a fortnight, and no evidence of them meeting each other. So, we have to make something up. I think the easiest way to do this is by making Gilraen somewhat distrustful of dwarves.
 
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ouzaru

Well-Known Member
Does it sound like Gilraen, to be so avoidant of the dwarves?
Aside from her relationship with Elrond, which is pretty clearly a matter of reputation, tradition, and necessity, I'm not sure what you're basing this understanding of Gilraen's character on. Having her be suspicious and cold to outsiders seems to me to be much more in keeping with the bit of a grump we're making her out to be in Season 1.
 

Haerangil

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Like the way you did the making of Dwarves! Also I like the idea that Aule makes them at Gundabad (I#m not sure if there#s a hint towards where exactly he made them, except that it was in Middle-Earth). And i really think it should be 13 Dwarves... I recall that to be mentioned somewhere Durin was alone. He possibly merried into every family of his brothers and sisters everytime he rose from death.
 

Marielle

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Like the way you did the making of Dwarves! Also I like the idea that Aule makes them at Gundabad (I'm not sure if there's a hint towards where exactly he made them, except that it was in Middle-Earth). And i really think it should be 13 Dwarves... I recall that to be mentioned somewhere Durin was alone. He possibly married into every family of his brothers and sisters every time he rose from death.
I think Durin being "alone" is a reference to each of the other Six Fathers were placed in pairs under mountains: two in Ered Luin, two in the north Orocani, two in the south Orocani, if I remember correctly. But the good professor seems to have completely left spouses out of his thinking at that point, and I think that there's some mythic power to Durin awakening completely alone in the world. So I agree, 13 sounds like the right number.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I try to find the reference...

PoME p. 322

it#s not entirely clear at that point. It seems Aule put out all dwarves in couples but Durin who slept alone, meaning the other six had wives. Durin later marrying into the other houses would be a rationalisation of this but is not directly fuonded by the text.
 

Marielle

Well-Known Member
I guess we're interpreting that line differently. I always read it as I relayed above: that the "couple" or "pair" referred to two Fathers sleeping side-by-side, with no mention of wives (who, of course, also had to be there). I'm almost positive that two Fathers awoke in Ered Luin, and two as well at each end of the Orocani. But I don't have the text in front of me -- moving to a tiny apartment as I job-hunt means my History of Middle Earth series is currently in my grandparents' basement :(


Edited to add: also probably influenced by Ted Nasmith's painting "Aule the Destroyer", where Aule is preparing to destroy the dwarves; he only paints the Seven Fathers there.
 

Haerangil

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But maybe you're also right and he does refer to the fathers as couples, not fathers and mothers as couples. It certainly could mean both... my reading would make make sense from the pure logic as there must be mothers somewhere, but your reading seems closer to the words thinking about them.
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
Small question for the frame - is there room in there for a game of conkers between Bilbo and Estel? It might be a fun touch if Bilbo is a minor bad influence on Estel, horsing around during his lesson perhaps.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
The outlines are just broad strokes, describing the progression of scenes and how we tell the story - they need a lot of fleshing out and details added to make an actual script. So.....yes, sure, there's room for that!
 
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