Session 2.17 for S2E13

Well, to answer your first question, we've been told what the climax is at this point, which is the choice of Feanor, but in the outline you have created there, it is the Thieves' Quarrel.

As to the second, the issue is created because in the book, there is a clear time gap between the failure of the trees and the discussion of breaking open the Silmarils. You'll notice that in the very basic outline I created a while back, I showed a scene of Tulkas and Orome failing to find Melkor and Tulkas returning to the others in time to confront Feanor.

I was actually thinking it might be interesting to have Orome track Melkor nearly to Formenos and come across the refugees. He takes Nerdanel to the council, which is how she gets there so fast.
 
You will note that I put the Thieves' Quarrel in square brackets. In Tolkien studies, that means 'strike out, do not include in final draft' ;).

I still think that Tulkas' actions are going to look weird on screen. It's not that they can't find him - the moving mass of darkness that swallows up the light of the stars should be something that Oromë can track.
 
Aaaah. Makes more sense now.. ...
Well, tactically speaking the villains would want to stick to valley areas which would obscure them from sight. Maybe Orome _is_ able to track them, but only sporadically. Tulkas' actions could easily be explained by just saying, "In case they doubled back."
 
I think we should give the Exec team the following choice:

1) Would you like the climax of S2Ep13 to be Melkor's theft of the silmarils, allowing the events to play out as you described in the Session?

OR

2) Would you like Fëanor's decision not to give up the silmarils to be the climax of S2Ep13, meaning that the Thieves' Quarrel would have to be reserved for S3Ep1, and we lose the Melkor-triumphant-on-his-throne-in-Angband shot at the end of this Season?


Because as I see it, those are the choices. We're in a Season Finale here. We're allowed to have really important events occur in every Act. The destruction of the Trees is a big deal, of course, but it sets the rest of the episode in motion, so it's not a 'climactic' event - we could call it an inciting incident*, maybe? Fëanor's decision could be given its due weight, but still be a mid-episode event leading up to the theft of the silmarils (only revealed when we see Finwë's dead body, wrecked Formenos, and Melkor's clutched hand).

But if we do want that to be the CLIMAX that the episode builds to...then we don't have time for the Thieves' Quarrel in Season 2. Chronologically, it happens later anyway, so delaying it is not terrible. But yeah, probably not our call, and the next Session is to discuss script outlines anyway, soooo....


*amysrevenge, I am also an engineer and don't know the first thing about screenwriting.
 
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One open question (besides the where is Tulkas thing I'm still trying to figure out) is why Fëanor stands around and stares at the dying Trees rather than recognizing that Formenos (and thus his father, his wife and the silmarils) are in danger. As soon as it is brought up that Melkor attacked the Trees, he should be worried about this and wanting to go secure his stronghold against an attack from Melkor.

But he doesn't. Why not?

As soon as Oromë and/or Tulkas mentions that Melkor has gone north, Fëanor should immediately suspect Melkor's target.

But he doesn't. Why not?

Is there some sort of false trail or indication that Melkor has gone south that distracts the Valar (and thus Fëanor as well) from his true goal/next target?

No matter how we structure the episode, Fëanor will not react until after the death of Finwë (if we are keeping Mandos' line, and WE ARE KEEPING MANDOS' LINE!) So, it will seem to the audience that he stood on the Hill with dying Trees and did...nothing. We are going to have to account for that. Is Fëanor more grief-stricken than any other elf at the destruction of the Trees? I don't picture him standing by calmly and letting others take charge, but....he does not take charge of even his own actions here. Why?
 
Well, I think showing that Melkor fled south to start withis a good move.. Maybe Orome finds the point at which the trail turns north after he sends Tulkas back. It would put Formenos to the northwest of Valinor, but I think that's a fair place to put it.
 
Formenos = Formen Ost = Northern Fortress, so as long as it is somehow 'north', I will be happy with it's placement. Northwest is fine.
 
well formenos is inthe pelori and in the northetn hills... at first i put formenos north of valmar, but then i realised it should be in the pelori where the well of kapalinda is.. that would be northeast of valmar and right north of taniquetil. but of course hills of the north also could refer to one of the two northwestern sidesrms of the pelori... in that case northwest of valmar could be possible, but it would place formenos in a far northern position and a much colder climate..
 
Another question is what Ulmo's role in this episode will be. We have set him up as Melkor's primary foe/antagonist throughout most of these first two seasons...what is his role in this final episode, reacting to Melkor's actions?
 
The elves don't seem to mind the cold, so I don't have a problem with it being pretty far to the north.

Anyway, I fired off a tweet to the hosts, which usually gets a response quickly. If I don't hear back by tomorrow afternoon, I'll try email.
 
I really don't know what to do with Ulmo other than giving him an I told you so with Manwë. Unless we give him a subplot where he quite nearly "washes" away the surface of the world and gets talked down, maybe by Yavanna who has, once again suffered the most of all the Valar.
 
A lot of good stuff here. I need a spare minute to offer some alternative timelines, because I think, as usual, that I like the cut of the exec's gib, but they've left all the nitty-gritty actual-doing to us. I'll see if I can come up with an outline that actually does what we want in advance of Sunday, and we can maybe jaw about it after the rest of what we need to get done. At some point, however, we may need to refuse to allow perfection to be the enemy of good, and compromise on one execution or another to prop up its competitor.
 
MithLuin said:
One open question (besides the where is Tulkas thing I'm still trying to figure out) is why Fëanor stands around and stares at the dying Trees rather than recognizing that Formenos (and thus his father, his wife and the silmarils) are in danger. As soon as it is brought up that Melkor attacked the Trees, he should be worried about this and wanting to go secure his stronghold against an attack from Melkor.
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I agree this is an important point, especially when Feanors refusal is the CLIMAX. He should have some action that supports his emotional state. We can't get away with talking and facial expression only. Even if he isn't suspecting that Melkor is heading to Formenos. The world is panicing around him what could he do?
 
Time is really intersting here... I earlier suggested that the killing of the Trees should result in chaos. If that's what happens, it's not going to be like Fëanor is standing waiting and doing nothing. Initially, people will try to save the Trees. It's not until it's clear that this is impossible that the Valar will ask Fëanor about the Silmarils. That can't be the first thing that comes to everyone's mind.
Things happen fast and a lot of emotion is flying around making it harder to think clearly, even if you are a god, a demigod or a supersmart immortal elf. (This line of reasoning also applies to whether Oromë can track Melkor or not; he fails, and we have to accept that this indicates that his powers are limited). On top of that, we have to forget what we know happens. I like the idea of a false trail to the south. But what we really have to take into account is the effect of the darkness. Yes, the light of the Trees don't go out in a blink but fade away. But when it's dark, it will have to be a dramatic contrast to the light.
 
One thing that we can do for Ulmo is to show his prescience in looking at the big picture. We could have Tulkas or Orome coming to Ulmo and saying, "Raise the waters and drown the Helcaraxe so that Melkor and that foul beast can't use it to escape Valinor!"

And Ulmo will look at them and say, "I will not. I foresee that the Helcaraxe has a part to play in events yet to come, and I dare not gainsay that fate."

Or something like that. It sets up that Ulmo is already starting to play the long game when it comes to the defeat of Melkor/Morgoth.
 
Could we possibly have Fëanor working to help save the trees? Possibly even being instrumental in the preservation of the flower and fruit that become the sun and moon? The hosts did want to show him devastated. That could also distract him from the threat to Formenos.
 
We'd have to shift the timeline a bit. As I recall, it's pretty clearly stated that the flower and fruit happen after Feanor's refusal.

Otherwise, I love the idea.
 
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