Session 3.03 - Creative Challenges

In the Helcaraxë Sets thread, we have been talking about Auroras, Northern Lights, which would bring an eerie feeling to the scenes on the grinding ice. Those lights could actually be some kind of help from the Valar or some Maiar. Maybe from Varda, or from...Olorin?

(Just a shot in the dark)
 
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MithLuin said:
I don't think we need to have the quail show up in the camp as surprise food, or water from a rock or any *direct* assistance. But the Noldor could have a moment of good luck (maybe right before the death of Elenwë).
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I don't want -- and didn't mean to suggest -- an actual recapitulation of an Old Testament event, but I do think we might want to start threading the narrative with hints of the "luck, if luck you call it" idea, and suggestions that Eru is more involved in his creation than the ignorant might think. We could even have "bad luck that turns out to be good", a la the Hobbit. Maybe trying to save Elenwe leads them to finding the only path out of the Grinding Ice? That might be too morbid...
 
the Quail? I'm not sure---common Quails do not live in northern britain and only in some parts of southern Skandinavia. So i'm inclined to think that Forochel is too far north for Quail to appear as a reliable source of food. If my understanding of Tolkiens maps is right I suggest the helcaraxe to lie north of the 60° longitude while Dolmed probably is close to the 52°.

I see now i#ve misread your suggestion Mithluin :)
 
What is Ulmo's attitude to the exiles at this point? He seems to become more sympathetic and more willing to aid them as they suffer in Middle Earth, and I don't remember him counseling the Valar against exiling them, but even now I wonder if we might suggest that he is lending them some aid in crossing the Helcaraxe. Whatever we do with divine aid should be subtle (Ulmo certainly would be) and we should merely raise a question in the viewer's mind about the source of good fortune , rather than answering it through obvious signs.
 
Ange1e4e5 said:
Perhaps too many elves crossing an ice bridge? Maybe Melkor/Ungoliant weakened it in their crossing?
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In our S02 Finale, we had the Helcaraxë created through Ulmo's last attempt to prevent Melkor's escape, so ... kinda?

But more importantly, it should be a violent landscape, where the most dangerous elements are the terrain itself. People could even be crushed between gigantic pieces of ice that are moving slowly closer to each other, but are too large to escape.
 
Thinking out loud...
So when Elves die crossing the Helcaraxë, Ulmo feels guilty for creating it? What would that make him do? The Elves are up on the glacier, not close to the ocean anymore... He can't reach them. He can't undo what he's done. He can't melt the ice, that would be dangerous. He could ask someone to help him, to do him a favour. He could talk about this in the discussion that leads to the decision to create the Moon and the Sun. The question is, does he try anything before that?
Could we tie this to the Auroras? As MithLuin pointed out in the Sets thread, it's actually impossible to have Auroras until there is a Sun. But there is some conensus to ignore that fact. The problem with this is that we need some other explanation, which would have to be mythological. So, we need some chain of events involving one or more of the Ainur creating the Aurora. I'm not totally comfortable with this, but let's talk this through anyway. Should the creator be a Vala or a Maia? In the case of the Sun and the Moon, we have Maiar carrying lights across the sky. The Aurora is more elusive, more of a flickering field of light rather than a single body, so it should not be a Maia carrying something - it is not like a primary source of light but like a side effect. It could be a bunch of small Maiar dancing in the dark, trying to mimic the stars...

An alternative would be not explaining the Aurora at all, leaving the viewers thinking it could be Eru or whatever...
 
Haakon said:
Thinking out loud...
So when Elves die crossing the Helcaraxë, Ulmo feels guilty for creating it? What would that make him do? The Elves are up on the glacier, not close to the ocean anymore... He can't reach them. He can't undo what he's done. He can't melt the ice, that would be dangerous. He could ask someone to help him, to do him a favour. He could talk about this in the discussion that leads to the decision to create the Moon and the Sun. The question is, does he try anything before that?
Could we tie this to the Auroras? As MithLuin pointed out in the Sets thread, it's actually impossible to have Auroras until there is a Sun. But there is some conensus to ignore that fact. The problem with this is that we need some other explanation, which would have to be mythological. So, we need some chain of events involving one or more of the Ainur creating the Aurora. I'm not totally comfortable with this, but let's talk this through anyway. Should the creator be a Vala or a Maia? In the case of the Sun and the Moon, we have Maiar carrying lights across the sky. The Aurora is more elusive, more of a flickering field of light rather than a single body, so it should not be a Maia carrying something - it is not like a primary source of light but like a side effect. It could be a bunch of small Maiar dancing in the dark, trying to mimic the stars...

An alternative would be not explaining the Aurora at all, leaving the viewers thinking it could be Eru or whatever...
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Well, this could be a way to introduce Tilion. Arien has had some screen time up until now, but we haven't seen Tilion yet.

Though, I do like the idea of the Valar being caught off guard just as much as the elves, implicating the hand of Iluvatar....
 
Haakon said:
Maybe it could be a side effect of the Hiding of Valinor?
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I'm not sure. Guess it depends how early it happens. It does seem like a potential "rainbow after the great flood" moment, after all.

The Ulmo feeling guilty angle has some merit, after all, despite the battle that formed the Helcaraxë, he failed to bring down Melkor alone, despite his great might and power. I do like the idea of him working with someone to give the Elves some light and hope.

Also, introducing Tilion here helps us avoid the awkward "this looks like a job for redshirt #3" moment when he is chosen to be the moon.
 
Tilion is associated with Oromë and Lorien, and loves silver. Maybe he has some Maiar friends of the same inclination, who could roam the Helcaraxë or be pushed to do so by Ulmo? They could intentionally or not create the Auroras.
Later, Ulmo will recommend Tilion to carry the light of the Moon.
 
MithLuin said:
3) Angband. What is Angband like? What is the fleshed-out villain storyline that will tie the Noldor and Beleriand stories together?
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Back to this then.
Melkor will start to do things at a manic pace. He takes a look at the state of affairs in Angband and realises that things are in a chaotic, sorry mess. He needs to get things going. One of the first things Melkor is going to do is that he'll want to find out what Ungoliant is up to and try to understand if she's a threat and maybe plan a revenge (he's hurting like hell). So, he puts Mairon on this job (and puts Boldog in charge of the Orc Project). Mairon takes his underlings and allies, all the werewolves and cats and vampire bats, to Ered Gorgoroth and Nan Dungortheb, where it seems that an eruption of arachnoids have put its mark on the area. These spiders may or may not still be led by Ungoliant. Has she left or not? I can't find a text where it says exactly when she moves on. If she has left - why? If not - why does she leave now? Does Mairon strike a deal with her? Is she afraid of cats?
I think Mairon could make a deal with Shelob, but also with Ungoliant.
Anyway, these spiders and Mairon's doings in the Vale forces Melian to create the Girdle.

So we need a Spider focused episode which includes reactions from both the Angband camp (Mairon) and the Sindar.
 
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Sauron could meet Ungoliant. He could try to enlist her or make a deal. He could explain there's going to be a war, and that the Valar might come, and that his lord Melkor would like to have her on his side. She will have nothing of this, for a couple of reasons - she does not trust Morgoth at all, and she will not fight for anyone but herself. She doesn't like the thought of war and fears the Valar, so she decides to leave Beleriand. Her offspring can't really come along, and she doesn't really care about them enough, so she leaves them. Sauron is able to make a deal with Shelob, who is the strongest of the spiders.
 
I guess we could do that. We could just wonder why she isn't around, thinking she might turn up at any moment.
 
But we have to be clear about the fact that she has been seen in that area. I mean that's why Sauron should go there. And if she isn't there he finds Shelob and maybe he thinks that's Ungoliant initially and starts to bargain with her (but we need to know pretty soon that Ungoliant isn't around, it would be confusing if everybody thought Shelob was Ungoliant for several episodes).
 
Still, I kind of like the idea of Sauron meeting Ungoliant. I'm not ready to drop that completely yet.
 
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