Session 3.08 - S3 Ep3: Meanwhile in Beleriand


Well-Known Member
Hmm. Yes, that's creative. Still, I'm not sure it would solve things - How long does the fire last? Does the ship drift across the whole ocean, burning without sinking? No I think a vision is still a better option - or a dream.

Another idea would be some kind of messenger. A bird - a seagull, a tern or an albatross. I don't know. Maybe that's just silly.

I guess we should discuss some kind of Ainu intervention as well.
Maybe the ships are made of a special wood?

Boldog is a Maia?

And how tall are we aiming?


Staff member
Haakon, I did share your entire timeline with the Hosts, but only a condensed version of Episode 3 made it onto the slides for tomorrow. So, I guess be prepared to explain/add to any ideas that didn't quite get fully fleshed out (if you are available).


Staff member
Haakon, I did share your entire timeline with the Hosts, but only a condensed version of Episode 3 made it onto the slides for tomorrow. So, I guess be prepared to explain/add to any ideas that didn't quite get fully fleshed out (if you are available).
Ok my plan is to attend to at least 90 minutes of the session so I hope that will give me time to comment on things. If you have time MithLuin, could you send me a message with the condensed version? It’s easier to prepare if I know what’s in and what isn’t.


Staff member
Sure, here's the slide:

•Beginning with the Noldor and the storm of Uinen. Then shift to Beleriand:

•We visit Círdan,see the life of the Falathrim, their settlements. A new ship has just been built.

•Establishing Thingol and Melian, and their court.

•Their traveling court visits Nan Elmoth. Lúthien dances under the stars in the place where her parents met, while Daeron provides the music. The Sindar celebrate a hunting festival in honor of Oromë. They are interrupted by Eöl (an Avari) and his servants, who claim to have established a home there. Thingol wins the territory dispute, because he’s king.

•Thingol and Melian discuss the extent of their domain and others who are entering across the EredLuin. Beleg and Mablung are sent out on scouting missions.

•The loners - Eöl and Mîm- meet. Eöl’s servants hold Mim down at first, but Mim later tells Eol about the dwarves in the East and his own secret home that Thingol does not know about.

•Mablung encounters dwarves for the first time – he sees them from a distance, and some hide while others seem cautiously interested.

•Beleg encounters what he at first takes for a group of elves…but are actually proto-orcs – some ugly creatures eating a fresh kill with blood smeared on their faces and hideous voices. They have been engaged in wanton destruction, and flee from him.

Richol Richards

Well-Known Member
So, there's not much I can add to this discussion as I think it's been pretty well covered and agree with most of the main points. But I'd just like to say I like the emphasis on "others" and the concept of who is able to call what region/land/domain their home. Random detail, but I love the presence of fire in the final scene. Not only is fire consuming and destructive, but it would add an even eerier effect (the shine of blood in firelight can be an unsettling and powerful image). I briefly thought about bookending in terms of a storm literally brewing at the end, and a flash of lightning instead to illuminate the faces (there's your jump scare effect, haha) but how would the logistics of a storm work without the sun and moon....

Also, it may put the viewer in mind of more recent events, and this is occuring way before Uinen's storm. So there's that...


Staff member
So we’re back to this, (right?) :

Uinen's storm. Beleriand in peacetime. Thingol's court, Círdan's havens, Eöl's misanthropy. Eöl and Mîm. Sindar encounter orcs. Angband: Morgoth takes over the Orc Project and the raising of Thangorodrim. Boldog introduced and Sauron sent tofind Ungoliant.

Richol Richards

Well-Known Member
Notes from today:

Girdle of Melian
- Melian is continuously exerting her power to upkeep the girdle
- She is not weakened by the Girdle, only fully occupied
- The audience shouldn’t be thinking “Poor Melian”, she's fine

*Will need to introduce lembas at some point (blessing of Melian to her people, sets elves of Doriath apart). Probably save for next season...

*Season 4 – show the beginnings Sauron's dispersal of his energy

*Morgoth pouring energy into the orcs to match the imbued power of the elves coming from Valinor

Q: What action/conflict do we have in episode 6?? (Address later)

The Court of Thingol

Q: What’s Thingol and Melian’s relationship like?
- Thingol is benevolent and loving
- Melian is wise and wouldn't have chosen him if he was a jerk from day one

*Doriath full of silver trees (beech trees vs birches)
*some elves living in flets in trees, not all of them live in Menegroth
*Melian should not monopolize conversation, shouldn’t say as much (like Mandos, mostly silent so that when she speaks her words carry weight)

Daeron and Luthien

- should be a matched set
- portray the bliss of Thingol’s court
- everyone just assumes they’re meant to be together
- need to make Daeron more of a sympathetic character – his loss later on should seem like a true tragedy
- The match between Daeron and Luthien should be Thingol’s plan, so when Melian doesn’t ourtright oppose it, the wedge begins to form between them
- Luthien should be gorgeous, not sexy. Her dancing should arouse joy, not lust. Should be dressed modestly at all times

* Should Luthien flirt with Morgoth….(dressed as Thuringwethil)??

Beleg & Mablung etc.

Mablung – Primary military leader (general army) Thingol’s no. 1 guy? Or Celeborn?
Beleg – Chief scout, more of a maverick (special forces)

- chief advisor
- should have battle experience before meeting Galadriel
- gift-giver (not in a way that supplants Thingol)
- Thingol’s herald

Oropher and Thranduil?

- introduce during Fall of Doriath
- Oropher as one of Dior’s people
- Oropher introduced with the Nauglimir story

Galathil (father of Nimloth)
- Nimloth someone else’s daughter?
- Thranduil’s sister? (But that would make Legolas older than Elrond...)

Doriath Culture
- court moves from place to place
- no palace or throne pre-Menegroth
- no agriculture ?
- established trade with Haven elves (fish, PEARLS, etc)
- lots of leisure time, lots of partying, moveable feast (Thranduil tries to capture this lifestyle later in Mirkwood)

*Hall of Fire a Gondolin concept, not Doriath (Pengelodh)


- Establish Sauron’s relationship with the proto-orcs
- Morgoth concerned about Valar coming after him, knows Feanor will
- Worried about Tulkas and Orome so puts Gothmog and Balrogs on Northern Front
- Gives Sauron the charge of destroying the elves in the south


- Boldog a spirit of wrath and violence
- Embodied in an orc body
- A fallen Maia of Tulkas (delight in slaughter and killing things)
- Boldog beats his own drum but is not a plotter
- follows orders but also serves himself and follows his own initiative
- Sauron or Morgoth have to keep him in line through fear

*Sauron’s corrupted elves still beautiful before Morgoth twists them

Orc encounter....

- Doriath elves shocked that there are creatures like this
- Beleg’s reaction should not be military, but hunting (later)
- Beleg should try to befriend them at first ("Hi, guys!")
- Gets wounded, bears scar from this encounter for the rest of his life
- Scene should be a visual parallel to Finrod’s discovery of Men later
- No proto-orc encounters. They meet Morgoth’s orcs from the get-go.
- Sauron not happy that the orcs wandered off and blew the element of surprise (punishes Boldog?)
- The Spell of Bottomless Dread (ties will of captured elves to Morgoth)

* Mairon/Sauron mirrors Aule's desire to create followers (like with the dwarves). The orcs are more his protogees vs slaves. Then Morgoth comes in and transforms them, which Sauron considers a waste.

Transition from storm….

- need to show that some survive
- end the storm scene with a meeting between Fingolfin and Feanor (with plenty of foreshadowy undertones)
- Fingolfin looks like he’s drawing his sword on Feanor but breaks it instead
- cut to Angband after this scene (creation of orcs, meet them later at the end of the episode)
- orrrr cut to Cirdan after storm scene.....


- save for episode 4 ?
- should introduce in this episode, if there’s enough time
- pushing him back enables orcs to be the first discordant note in Beleriandic paradise
- Everything should be great until the discovery of the orcs
- Nan Elmoth encounter for episode 4

*Dwarves for episode 4

*Title for this episode: “Paradise Lost”
- theme of paradise lost/sense of inevitability/creeping sense of doom

>> I missed some bits here and there due to failing audio but this is the main gist, I think...