Session 4-21: Episodes 10 (& 11)

[MithLuin]

There seems to be a desire to have Aegnor killed by Glaurung, and our 'mandatory balrog death' be taken by Hador Lórindol (Goldenhead). But, it was also made clear that those were questions for season 5 that would be answered...later.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

So we’re not using my idea of having Aegnor earn a mutual kill against a Balrog at the Dagor Bragollach? I guess I would prefer a Balrog dying before Gothmog since I’m not a fan of having the leader be the first to die.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that is set in stone, but I am definitely for saving all of the balrog deaths until we get to Gondolin. Especially since the slaying of balrogs at Gondolin would be what we call a "Hope Spot" suggesting that the defense of Gondolin might succeed. Spoiler alert: It won't.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

There seems to be a desire to have Aegnor killed by Glaurung, and our 'mandatory balrog death' be taken by Hador Lórindol (Goldenhead). But, it was also made clear that those were questions for season 5 that would be answered...later.

Except that Glaurung is described as attacking the eastern front by Maglor’s Gap and destroying all the land between the arms of Gelion, while Aegnor will be in Dorthonion.

 

[amysrevenge]

Except that Glaurung is described as attacking the eastern front by Maglor’s Gap and destroying all the land between the arms of Gelion, while Aegnor will be in Dorthonion.

Does he have to be? Aren't we clever enough to contrive a reason for Aegnor to be where we need him to be?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Does he have to be? Aren't we clever enough to contrive a reason for Aegnor to be where we need him to be?

No. He looks derelict in his duty to protect his lands in Dorthonion if he’s halfway across Beleriand; Dorthonion is one of the first places hit in the Dagor Bragollach.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

No. He looks derelict in his duty to protect his lands in Dorthonion if he’s halfway across Beleriand; Dorthonion is one of the first places hit in the Dagor Bragollach.

It is also possible that Glaurung could go to more than one location over the course of the campaign.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

It is also possible that Glaurung could go to more than one location over the course of the campaign.

Do we have to have him killed by Glaurung?

 

[amysrevenge]

No. He looks derelict in his duty to protect his lands in Dorthonion if he’s halfway across Beleriand; Dorthonion is one of the first places hit in the Dagor Bragollach.

There is always a way.

How derelict would Boromir look if he had passed the test of the Ring and was in Rohan with the Three (no, Four) Hunters while all those battles were happening around Minas Tirith, and he didn't show up until Aragorn's ship rowed up? In hindsight, not derelict at all, but at the time, very derelict. With good reason, as contrived by a good writer.

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Do we have to have him killed by Glaurung?

Not necessarily.

 

[MithLuin]

As stated, those are Season 5 questions. Aegnor's story is very much a question for Season 5, and we'll be giving him an arc and developing him as a character. He's had a minor background supporting role to this point. Getting Narsil will be the *first* time he has done something significant or had any attention called to him as a character.

He will definitely die in the Dagor Bragollach. 'How' is something we will definitely discuss next season. Some suggestions have been made, some of which Corey Olsen gave voice to last night, but nothing is set in stone about that battle, which we haven't planned yet.

When both Aegnor and Angrod were slated to be killed in the Dagor Bragollach, we had suggested multiple scenarios as to how they could die. Now that it's just Aegnor, we're rethinking those plans, but there are still multiple possible scenarios. None of this is a 'done deal.' But, yes, "Being killed by Glaurung" is on the table as a possible way Aegnor could meet his end. Nothing will be decided regarding that until Season 5, though.

 

[Haakon]

Yes, one could for example (while considering the fact that this thread is way OT) imagine that Hador gets killed by Glaurung and Aegnor by a Balrog, just like his brother.

 

[MithLuin]

About Celegorm: I thought the action that makes him despised in Doriath was trying to make Luthien marry him, which is tantamount to attempted rape for Elves.

Well, sure - they hate him for that. They're outraged that he would presume to demand her hand in marriage. It's also quite possible that he was already disliked in Doriath for his earlier actions, though, right? There's no reason to portray him as a friend of Doriath in this episode, is there?

(My main concern with that scene is that we're putting Celeborn and Celegorm into a conversation together - the potential for name confusion is going to be soooo high while discussing that scene! )

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Well, sure - they hate him for that. They're outraged that he would presume to demand her hand in marriage. It's also quite possible that he was already disliked in Doriath for his earlier actions, though, right? There's no reason to portray him as a friend of Doriath in this episode, is there?

(My main concern with that scene is that we're putting Celeborn and Celegorm into a conversation together - the potential for name confusion is going to be soooo high while discussing that scene! )

Now that’s potential for some humor. Imagine someone referring to Celegorm as Celegorn and Celeborn as Celeborm, or vice versa.
Speaking of the power point bullet talking about the Sindar arriving with Starbucks, that would be a nice little addition to the scene.

 

[Rhiannon]

Well, sure - they hate him for that. They're outraged that he would presume to demand her hand in marriage. It's also quite possible that he was already disliked in Doriath for his earlier actions, though, right? There's no reason to portray him as a friend of Doriath in this episode, is there?

(My main concern with that scene is that we're putting Celeborn and Celegorm into a conversation together - the potential for name confusion is going to be soooo high while discussing that scene! )

Unless we use Celegorm's Quenya name, Tyelkormo. Someone could refer to him as Celegorm and he could insist on the Quenya version because it is so close to Celeborn.

 

[MithLuin]

'Showing up 10 minutes late with Starbucks' is a way of pointing out that the person would have been able to make it on time, but they took the time to stop and get themselves a coffee instead of being timely. This is in contrast to the person who arrives 10 minutes late panting and out of breath, obviously having done their best to hurry up to get there (though still arriving late).

The Middle-earth equivalent would likely be Eomer's words: Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never.

 

[Rhiannon]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that is set in stone, but I am definitely for saving all of the balrog deaths until we get to Gondolin. Especially since the slaying of balrogs at Gondolin would be what we call a "Hope Spot" suggesting that the defense of Gondolin might succeed. Spoiler alert: It won't.

In The Fall of Gondolin, Rog and the Folk of the Hammer of Wrath are the first Elves to kill Balrogs. While I know that our conception of Balrogs is different from The Book of Lost Tales, maybe we could preserve the essence of this scene by having him appear to kill a Balrog. He could be cornered by one against some kind of unstable stone structure. To everyone's surprise, he shouts that Balrogs can be slain. Instead of the Balrog with his hammer, he suddenly attacks the wall behind him, causing it to collapse on both him and the Balrog. Everyone around is sad for Rhogrin but amazed that a Balrog has been killed. Then the Balrog climbs out of the rubble.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

'Showing up 10 minutes late with Starbucks' is a way of pointing out that the person would have been able to make it on time, but they took the time to stop and get themselves a coffee instead of being timely. This is in contrast to the person who arrives 10 minutes late panting and out of breath, obviously having done their best to hurry up to get there (though still arriving late).

The Middle-earth equivalent would likely be Eomer's words: Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never.

I was just joking around about Starbucks and Game of Thrones.

 

[Haakon]

I was just joking around about Starbucks and Game of Thrones.

Yeah you mean maybe someone arrives with coffee and they’ve got a couple of cups from Starbucks with the names spelled wrong: ‘Celeborm’ and ‘Celegorn’ and there’s confusion about whose cups they are?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Yeah you mean maybe someone arrives with coffee and they’ve got a couple of cups from Starbucks with the names spelled wrong: ‘Celeborm’ and ‘Celegorn’ and there’s confusion about whose cups they are?

Why not?

 

[Haakon]

I think it sounds like perfect extra material for a blooper special.