Session 5-03: Season Outline

I think that in order to decide that, we first need to figure out what Sauron’s schemes actually are. In Season 4, Sauron gathered information and tried to set the Noldor and Sindar against one another, so maybe he would still be interested in gathering information and/or sowing distrust. This could be between the Noldor and Sindar again, or between Elves and Men, or between the houses of the Noldor.

In addition to sowing distrust (which will always please them and work to their advantage) perhaps the bad guys are also aiming to encourage complacency and weaken the intensity of the siege, to make the Dagor Bragollach easier. Maybe Annael could do something that would lead to some defenses being weakened before the battle (although I know there is a significant gap of time between his release and the battle). Or he says things that discourage others from adopting Fingolfin's attack plan.
 
In addition to sowing distrust (which will always please them and work to their advantage) perhaps the bad guys are also aiming to encourage complacency and weaken the intensity of the siege, to make the Dagor Bragollach easier. Maybe Annael could do something that would lead to some defenses being weakened before the battle (although I know there is a significant gap of time between his release and the battle). Or he says things that discourage others from adopting Fingolfin's attack plan.
Right now we're aiming for Fingolfin's attack plan and Annael's treachery rather far from each other according to the charts.
 
Right now we're aiming for Fingolfin's attack plan and Annael's treachery rather far from each other according to the charts.
Not really. The charts just represent my suggestions and preferences.

I suggested having the escape of Rhogrin and Annael earlier in the season and being an arc that only lasts a few episodes for a few reasons:
  • We've been putting it off since last season.
  • Episode 13 of Season 4 prominently featured Fingon and Annael's son, and the characters talked about Rhogrin in the episode.
  • Neither Rhogrin nor Annael is a major character.
  • It would give us a Hithlum story before Hador establishes his house and Fingolfin begins pushing for an assault on Angband,
If we want to have Annael escape nearer to the Dagor Bragollach, however, we can.
 
I'm not in favor of having Annael "escape" closer to the Dagor Bragollach for the same reasons you have, plus there should be a measure of calm before the storm that different characters are doing to interpret; Fingolfin would interpret it as an incentive to make "the big push" on Angband, while others (barring Turgon who no one's going to be aware of his opinion) are going to be a bit more lazy and suggest that they should keep things as they are because it looks like Morgoth's run out of ideas.
 
I realize that Bereg is from the House of Bëor (we were just discussing how to show onscreen his descent from Bëor). I have the Council listed under the 'House of Hador' storylines (rather than the House of Bëor storylines) because the key character in that entire sequence is Amlach, not Bereg, and the key question of 'should we sign up to serve the elves or not?' is a question the House of Hador is struggling with. I would be happy to delete Bereg from the GANTT chart entirely, since he's such a minor character, but figured 'Men leave Beleriand' is a significant enough detail to leave him in.
I imagine we will want to use Eöl's relationship with the Dwarves to illuminate the Dwarf-centric storyline this season, whatever that may be.

As far as I'm concerned, the main reason to have Annael's treachery as an early season event is because we want some time for the elves to react with suspicion and for him to choose exile. We can't really do that in the middle of the battle aftermath without making that feel tacked on. It's important to remember that the Rhogrin, Annael, and Díriel storylines are all villain storylines told from the elvish perspective. So, it's fluid where in the Season that all happens, but it does have to fit with other storylines, and likely needs to be resolved by, say, Episode 11.

As we've discussed in the past, the fighting at the Pass of Aglon falls in different places in the chronology depending upon whether or not the additional 200 years (and extra generations of Men) have been added to the timeline. As a very minor event that didn't make it into the published Silmarillion, we have the freedom to delete it entirely, or insert it wherever we might want it to appear. I know you have made arguments to involve Hador in that event; originally, it's meant to be the House of Bëor that's involved. We'd have to figure out the purpose for it to place it chronologically - is it showing that Men can successfully fight orcs for the first time? If so, it needs to predate Haleth. Is it showing that the House of Bëor is willing to fight alongside the Elves? If so, it should happen fairly early in the Season, as the 'all in' attitude of the House of Bëor needs to be demonstrated up front (and, in our telling, probably during the lifetime of Bëor). Is it being used to demonstrate that the House of Hador is willing to throw in with the Elves and fight alongside them, after much dithering on their part? Then it should happen much later in the season (no earlier than the halfway point), and probably be geographically relocated to somewhere the House of Hador...is, and not the Pass of Aglon at all. But the whole point of utilizing a GANTT chart is that an event can be shifted into any episode without reworking the list.
 
I realize that Bereg is from the House of Bëor (we were just discussing how to show onscreen his descent from Bëor). I have the Council listed under the 'House of Hador' storylines (rather than the House of Bëor storylines) because the key character in that entire sequence is Amlach, not Bereg, and the key question of 'should we sign up to serve the elves or not?' is a question the House of Hador is struggling with. I would be happy to delete Bereg from the GANTT chart entirely, since he's such a minor character, but figured 'Men leave Beleriand' is a significant enough detail to leave him in.
I imagine we will want to use Eöl's relationship with the Dwarves to illuminate the Dwarf-centric storyline this season, whatever that may be.

As far as I'm concerned, the main reason to have Annael's treachery as an early season event is because we want some time for the elves to react with suspicion and for him to choose exile. We can't really do that in the middle of the battle aftermath without making that feel tacked on. It's important to remember that the Rhogrin, Annael, and Díriel storylines are all villain storylines told from the elvish perspective. So, it's fluid where in the Season that all happens, but it does have to fit with other storylines, and likely needs to be resolved by, say, Episode 11.

As we've discussed in the past, the fighting at the Pass of Aglon falls in different places in the chronology depending upon whether or not the additional 200 years (and extra generations of Men) have been added to the timeline. As a very minor event that didn't make it into the published Silmarillion, we have the freedom to delete it entirely, or insert it wherever we might want it to appear. I know you have made arguments to involve Hador in that event; originally, it's meant to be the House of Bëor that's involved. We'd have to figure out the purpose for it to place it chronologically - is it showing that Men can successfully fight orcs for the first time? If so, it needs to predate Haleth. Is it showing that the House of Bëor is willing to fight alongside the Elves? If so, it should happen fairly early in the Season, as the 'all in' attitude of the House of Bëor needs to be demonstrated up front (and, in our telling, probably during the lifetime of Bëor). Is it being used to demonstrate that the House of Hador is willing to throw in with the Elves and fight alongside them, after much dithering on their part? Then it should happen much later in the season (no earlier than the halfway point), and probably be geographically relocated to somewhere the House of Hador...is, and not the Pass of Aglon at all. But the whole point of utilizing a GANTT chart is that an event can be shifted into any episode without reworking the list.
Well, as things stand now on the GANTT chart, the halfway point is the Council of 368 F.A.; we could have the Pass of Aglon fighting in the latter half of the season. At that point the House of Hador is not at Dor-Lomin yet. If we want Hador to show his mettle around this time, we could have them show up unexpectedly; not as gloriously as the Rohirrim at Helm's Deep or as amusingly as Caranthir at the stockade. Since Amlach declared for Maedhros and Maedhros doesn't seem to have any spare lands to give as a fief, Fingolfin could take on Hador as his vassal.
 
That is Díriel's storyline - whatever we have for the slaves in Angband to do. They are presumably making weapons and armor for the orc armies....but they could be mining or making food or whatever.
 
I would like to see a development for Diriel, or rather, a deterioration. Being a worker in Angband should be hard. It has to show.
 
I would like to see a development for Diriel, or rather, a deterioration. Being a worker in Angband should be hard. It has to show.
How far should we go with that? I definitely think a hollowed look, circles around the eyes is a bare minimum, but we might like to decide whether or not she'll survive out of Angband. I have an idea for a role for her to play for this season, but that's about it.
 
You know, what do we want Diriel to do this season? She's going to be part of the Angband storyline as she's part of the workforce there, but what other roles do we want her to play? I have my own idea, but perhaps there are better ones.

Also, I'm not completely onboard with showing Annael being put under Sauron's spell before he and Rhogrin "escape" because I think it spoils the surprise somewhat, unless the concept is that he's a ticking time bomb for the viewers to drive up the suspense. I guess I could compare that to Agent Gibbs from Air Force One; Gibbs is a mole on the titular plane and early in the film, he kills three Secret Service members and opens the plane's armory, allowing the terrorists (led by Gary Oldman's Ivan Korshunov) to use the weapons onboard in their takeover. Gibbs is taken hostage during the takeover and serves as a time bomb until the plane is at a terminal altitude and it looks like he'll have to be left behind, at which he blows his cover.
 
Last edited:
I would like to see a development for Diriel, or rather, a deterioration. Being a worker in Angband should be hard. It has to show.

Yeah... i wonder if any outsider could actually tell an early corrupted-elf and a thrall-elft apart... at all!
 
Yeah... i wonder if any outsider could actually tell an early corrupted-elf and a thrall-elft apart... at all!
Surely not that far? That would be just our luck, have Diriel survive until the War of Wrath, get mistaken for an Orc and killed. We’re not that sadistic, right?...
 
I think that if Diriel is mistaken for an orc, we've done it wrong. She could be mistaken for a servant of the Dark Lord of some other kind, which of course is the case. I think what you're saying Haerangil, is that she could look like one of the proto-orcs, the way the orcs looked while Mairon was working on them, before Morgoth poured his evil forced over them (or however we put it). Yes, I think she (and other elven captives) could look like that at the end.
 
I think that if Diriel is mistaken for an orc, we've done it wrong. She could be mistaken for a servant of the Dark Lord of some other kind, which of course is the case. I think what you're saying Haerangil, is that she could look like one of the proto-orcs, the way the orcs looked while Mairon was working on them, before Morgoth poured his evil forced over them (or however we put it). Yes, I think she (and other elven captives) could look like that at the end.
So what would stop her from getting killed if she makes it out of Angband when it’s broken open?
 
Back
Top