Session 5-23: Casting Criteria - *special broadcast time*

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Session 5-22 will be held on January 14th at 10 PM EST. We will be discussing the B-Plot (Nargothrond) of Episode 2, as well as Episode 3 (the Death of Bëor). Threads for these Episodes can be found in the Script forum, under Season 5.

Session 5-23 will be held at a special, unique time - the European-friendly broadcast time of 8 AM CET! While this will be at 2 AM EST, that should prove no difficulty for Corey Olsen, who is regularly a night owl. ;) So, mark your calendars for Friday January 29th at 2 AM EST for this special edition of Silm Film! (ie, we are starting 4 hours later than usual)

Session 5-23 will be focused on determining the casting criteria for Season 5.

So, we will need to decide the list of characters who will be cast this season, as well as physical descriptions and other requirements for the actors/actresses (typically, it's important to note if a character needs to be able to sing well, or fight, or ride a horse, or dance, or anything like that). Since this is the first season in which we are introducing Men (outside the Frame), we will need to discuss the traits of the Three Houses of the Edain, as well as Harad.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
So far, 1/9-10/2021:

House of Beor

Beor (272-365): Originally named Balan, leader of the House
Adanel (336-410): Granddaughter of Beor, a wisewoman. Grandmother of Emeldir
Andreth (385-465): Great-niece of Adanel, inherits her position as wise woman, organizes the resettlement of the House of Beor in Ladros. Beloved of Aegnor, but spurned by him. Will have some parting words with Finrod after the Dagor Bragollach.
Bregor (380-?): Elder brother of Andreth. Not much to say about this bloke as of yet.
Bregolas (396-455†): Younger brother of Andreth, possibly a dissolute youth in Nargothrond. The Professor suggests he take up an elder brother mentor role to Barahir. KIA in the Dagor Bragollach
Barahir (406-460): Son of Bregor, nephew of Andreth. Husband of Emeldir, father of Beren. Leadership of House of Beor conferred on him by Andreth. Led resistance against Morgoth in Dorthonion until betrayed by Gorlim the Unhappy and his band massacred by Orcs led by Gorgol.
Emeldir (403-475): Wife of Barahir, mother of Beren. Led part of refugees from Dorthonion and Ladros to Brethil; part because another group goes to Dor-Lomin, chief among them Morwen and Rian.

House of Beor, Present but casting is up in the air (will go no further than adults at time of Dagor Bragollach so Morwen and Rian are out for now)
Beren? (432-503): Son of Barahir. Last of the Band of 13, escaped his father and companions’ death. Waged a one-man war against Morgoth in Dorthonion for 4 years before fleeing to Doriath. Beloved of Luthien, undertook a quest to recover a Silmaril from Morgoth as a bride-price for Luthien at King Thingol’s behest. Killed by Carcharoth in Doriath, but resurrected alongside Luthien. Died (for real this time) in 503.
Baragund? (416-460): Son of Bregolas, father of Morwen. Killed by Orcs alongside his uncle.
Belegund? (420-460): Son of Bregolas, father of Rian. Killed by Orcs alongside his uncle.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
House of Haleth:

Haldad (322-385†): First known leader of the Haladin, father of Haleth and Haldar. KIA in the Assault on the Gelion-Ascar Stockade.
Haleth (355-440): Daughter of Haldad, twin sister of Haldan. Leads the defense of the Gelion-Ascar Stockade where she holds out for a week until Caranthir arrives. Haleth refuses his offer of vassalship and takes her people through Nan Dungortheb to the Forest of Brethil, where she kills Tevildo and sets up the House of Haleth. Unmarried, so her house falls to her nephew Haldan.
  • It just so happens that the Hosts have outlined some physical characteristics and personality traits. They have requested Haleth to be physically imposing for a woman and a bit of a bully.
Haldar (355-385†): Son of Haldad, father of Haldan. KIA in the Assault on the Gelion-Ascar Stockade.
Haldan (380-?): Son of Haldan, nephew of Haleth and her successor as head of the House of Haleth. Father of Haldir and Hareth.
  • There is some discussion as to Haldan’s death date. Since Hurin and Huor are stated to be Haldir’s wards this would put his death date conceivably put his death date before 455.
Haldir (409-472†): Son of Haldan, husband of Gloredhel of Dor-Lomin, father of Handir. His sister-sons Hurin and Huor are fostered with him in Brethil. KIA in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
Hareth (415-?): Daughter of Haldan, wife of Galdor the Tall of Dor-Lomin, mother of Hurin and Huor. Since the Easterlings killed or drove the elderly out to starve she’s not likely to live beyond 473.

Other Characters (may or may not be cast):

Handir (435?-495†): Son of Haldir and Gloredhel, father of Brandir the Lame. A skilled soldier. Killed in a skirmish by Orcs shortly before the Fall of Nargothrond.
Haladin Girl: (approximately 355-371): A Haladin girl courted by Sauron.
Haleth’s bodyguard: There are mentions of Haleth having an all-woman bodyguard.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
House of Hador: Season 5, more than one episode:
  • Hador (387-453): Lorindol (Goldenhead). Husband of Gildis, father of Gloredhel, Galdor, and Gundor. Took up service with Fingolfin/Fingon in his youth and received the Dragon-Helm from the latter, assists in rescue of Rhogrin and Annael. After the Council at Estolad, unites the various houses and brings them to Dor-Lomin. Dies of old age some time before the Dagor Bragollach.
  • Gildis: Wife of Hador, mother of Gloredhel, Galdor, and Gundor.
  • Amlach: Leader of another tribe that gets united under Hador. Takes a more aggressive approach to the Elves. Impersonated by Sauron at the Council of Estolad but reveals Sauron, later taking up service with Maedhros.
  • Bereg (might need renaming): A collaborator with Amlach who suggests leaving Beleriand. After the Council of Estolad he proves as good as his word and takes 1000 Men back over the Blue Mountains.
  • Gloredhel (413-472): Eldest child of Hador and Gildis. Wife of Haldir of Brethil, mother of Handir. Dies of grief in F.A. 472 after learning of her husband's death in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
  • Galdor (414 or 415-462†): The Tall. Heir to Hador. Husband of Hareth, father of Húrin and Huor. Leads the House of Hador in the Dagor Bragollach. KIA in F.A. 462 in an assault on Barad Eithel.
  • Gundor (After 415-455†): Youngest child of Hador and Gildis. KIA in the Dagor Bragollach.
Characters that may only appear in one episode this season but will factor into subsequent seasons:

  • Húrin (441-c.500): Thalion, the Steadfast. Eldest son of Galdor and Hareth, elder brother of Huor. Inherited his mother's height (he's short). Married Morwen of the House of Bëor, father of Túrin, Lalaith, and Nienor. Fostered with his brother in Brethil. While in Brethil he and his brother are separated from their uncle and are rescued by Eagles, who bring them to Gondolin. They stay a year in Gondolin and Húrin decides to leave. Succeeds his father of Lord of Dor-Lomin in F.A. 462. Leads the House of Hador in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad and is the only surviving soldier from that house. Captured after making his last stand and subjected to a curse on his family before being released after the death of his son Túrin. Commits suicide by jumping into Belegaer after causing quite a bit more trouble via the civil war in Brethil (if we choose to adapt) and the Nauglamir.
  • Huor (444-472†): Second son of Galdor and Hareth. Married Rian of the House of Bëor, father of Tuor. See information about Húrin. KIA in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, shot through the eye by a poisoned arrow and decapitated.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Elves:

Maeglin (-510†): Son of Eol and Aredhel. Accompanied his mother back to Gondolin and became Lord of the House of the Mole. Desired his cousin Idril. Eventually betrayed Gondolin to Morgoth in return for Idril and attempted to rape her during the Fall, only for Tuor to throw him from the ramparts of Gondolin.
Penlod: (?-510†): Father of Pengolodh, Lord of the House of the Pillar and second-in-command of the House of the Tower of Snow; receives command of the latter from Aredhel when she leaves Gondolin. KIA in the Fall of Gondolin.
Pengolodh: Son of Penlod. Originally seen as a child in Season 4, he has spent much of his life in Gondolin and his conversation with Aredhel makes her realize that the Gondolodrim have lost their purpose, hastening her desire to leave.

Unknown, but Chekhov’s Gunmen:
Finduilas? (After 60-495): Daughter of Orodreth and Meril, elder sister of Gil-galad. Beloved of Gwindor and Turin. Captured in the Fall of Nargothrond and executed in Brethil.
Gil-galad?: (300s-3441 S.A.): Son of Orodreth and Meril, younger brother of Finduilas. Fostered with Cirdan. Succeeded Turgon as High King after the latter’s death in the Fall of Gondolin. Founded a kingdom of Noldor in Lindon, maintaining close relations with Numenor and later the Faithful of Numenor. One of the leaders of the Last Alliance of Men and Elves, tag-teaming Sauron with Elendil, defeating Sauron but losing their lives in the duel. The title of High-King of the Noldor dies with him.
Elrhûn: Son of Annael, a lieutenant of Fingon. Will likely have some interactions with Fingon and Hador when he arrives. Unknown death date.

Frame:

Family of Numenorean-Haradrim descent: Rulers of a city-state that Gandalf (as Incanus) has visited.

Azrâindil (-2951): Matriarch of the city-state, mother of Abrazân and Arnubên.
Abrazân: Elder son of Azrâindil. Will escape from his community when it falls to Sauron and will have a cozy catchup with him when Aragorn comes to Gondor.
Arnubên: Younger son of Azrâindil. Will have a closer connection to Gandalf, but will twist his words and bring the city-state over to Sauron’s side, eventually becoming the Mouth of Sauron (the one that parleys with the armies of Gondor and Rohan at the Black Gate).

First Mouth of Sauron: Arnubên’s predecessor as Mouth of Sauron, leader of a Sauron-worshipping cult in the vicinity of the city-state. The Hosts have gravitated towards her being a woman; being of Numenorean descent, probably physically imposing.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
These lists are really good, but also have a lot of names. Is there any way that we can make some difference among the people on the lists, like, who are important and who are less important? Big or small? I don't think it's necessary for the Frame characters, they are all going to be cast and are all pretty important. But maybe not all of the others will end up being given an actor or actress? In any case, even if we cast people for all of these roles, it's good to know which are major ones, and minor.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
These lists are really good, but also have a lot of names. Is there any way that we can make some difference among the people on the lists, like, who are important and who are less important? Big or small? I don't think it's necessary for the Frame characters, they are all going to be cast and are all pretty important. But maybe not all of the others will end up being given an actor or actress? In any case, even if we cast people for all of these roles, it's good to know which are major ones, and minor.
I had started something of that sort with characters that would be present during certain events, like Finduilas, Gil-galad, Beren, Hurin, and Huor, but would not necessarily be cast. There’s going to be some who will play a major role for a couple episodes, but will shuffle off the mortal coil before long, along with some characters that are consistent supporting characters that would be in the background for most of the show, ie Pengolodh.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
House of Beor, Tier 1 (Major Characters)

Beor (3 episodes)
Adanel
Andreth (6-7 episodes)
Barahir (5 episodes plus no more than 3 next season)

House of Beor, Tier 2 (Supporting Characters)
Bregolas (Move to Dorthonion to Dagor Bragollach)
Emeldir
Beren (Chekhov’s Gunman)

House of Haleth, Tier 1 (Major Characters)
Haleth (4-5 episodes)

House of Haleth, Tier 2 (consistent Supporting Characters or Important for two or less episodes)
Haldad
Haldar
Haldan
Haldir
Hareth

House of Haleth, Tier 3 (Bit-Part)
Haleth’s Friend (past and present)
Handir son of Haldir

House of Hador, Tier 1 (Major Characters)
Hador

House of Hador, Tier 2 (Major for two or less episodes, or consistent Supporting presence)
Amlach
Bereg
Gildis
Galdor
Gloredhel

House of Hador, Tier 3
Gundor
Hurin (Chekhov’s Gunman)
Huor (Chekhov’s Gunman)

Elves, Tier 1
Maeglin

Elves, Tier 2
Penlod (Present in earlier episodes)
Pengolodh (Consistent Supporting Presence for multiple seasons)
Finduilas (Chekhov’s Gunman)
Gil-galad (Chekhov’s Gunman)
Elrhûn (Supporting Presence)

Villains:
Gorgul?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Well, Haleth has been discussed at length and we've received some characterization from the Hosts as to her physical appearance and personality. The Hosts have requested that Haleth be tall for a woman, with a forceful, even bullying personality. Thoughts on Haleth can be found here.

The First Mouth of Sauron has been discussed in the context of being the main antagonist of the Frame this season. The idea has been floated around to have the Mouth be a woman, to mirror the Mouth's role in relation to Sauron with Thurwingwetil (Thurwingwetil is Sauron's top lieutenant in the main story of SilmFilm). Remarks can be found here.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
These are the characters I think it important to cast this season:

MEN

House of Bëor
Bëor (Age 67-93)
Adanel (Age 4, 19 & 29, 74)
Andreth (Age 26-28, 60, 71)
Barahir (Age 5-7, 31, 55)

House of Haleth
Haleth (16, 30-41, 55, 81)
Haldad (49, 63)

House of Hador
Hador (Age 18-21, 58)
Galdor
Amlach

ELVES
Maeglin

FRAME
Queen (Azrâindil)
Older Son (Abrazân) - Age 21
Younger Son (Arnubên) - Age 19
First Mouth of Sauron



There are a few characters we definitely need to cast, but I am fine with holding off until a later season when they appear more regularly. One reason to wait on casting is to make sure we are talking about the casting at the same time as we are talking about the story for that character. So, yes, a young Hurin and Huor may have a cameo this season, and Beren will appear - but we should hold off on casting them.

Same with Finduilas and Gil-galad, most likely. They will appear in the Nargothrond storyline of Season 6, and we can cast them while discussing that. Can they appear in this season at some point? Sure...but that doesn't mean we need to cast them right now.

This season we are introducing a lot of new characters - any character who is more important later should probably be cast later, not now. As for the minor characters - obviously that's up for discussion; this list is meant to pare the list down to who we *need* to cast.


Another important question - which age are we casting the actor for? Some characters age through their entire lives over the course of this season. Adanel, in particular, is a 'time is passing' character, in that, when she appears, she's a signal to the audience over how much time has passed since the last time we were with these people.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Well, for example, I had created a suggestion for Barahir circa the Dagor Bragollach following the Hosts' suggestions that he be younger than what was outlined in the Silmarillion. I don't know if we need to cast multiple actors at different stages of their lives.

For The First Mouth of Sauron, @Haakon and I have been banking on an actress in her mid-thirties to mid-forties to show some form of corruption on the Mouth (I had suggested Sophie Turner but she might be too young). Much of Haleth's screentime will be in her thirties and forties. Andreth I've suggested mid-twenties.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
So far, 1/9-10/2021:

House of Beor

Beor (272-365): Originally named Balan, leader of the House
Adanel (336-410): Granddaughter of Beor, a wisewoman. Grandmother of Emeldir
Andreth (385-465): Great-niece of Adanel, inherits her position as wise woman, organizes the resettlement of the House of Beor in Ladros. Beloved of Aegnor, but spurned by him. Will have some parting words with Finrod after the Dagor Bragollach.
Bregor (380-?): Elder brother of Andreth. Not much to say about this bloke as of yet.
Bregolas (396-455†): Younger brother of Andreth, possibly a dissolute youth in Nargothrond. The Professor suggests he take up an elder brother mentor role to Barahir. KIA in the Dagor Bragollach
Barahir (406-460): Son of Bregor, nephew of Andreth. Husband of Emeldir, father of Beren. Leadership of House of Beor conferred on him by Andreth. Led resistance against Morgoth in Dorthonion until betrayed by Gorlim the Unhappy and his band massacred by Orcs led by Gorgol.
Emeldir (403-475): Wife of Barahir, mother of Beren. Led part of refugees from Dorthonion and Ladros to Brethil; part because another group goes to Dor-Lomin, chief among them Morwen and Rian.

House of Beor, Present but casting is up in the air (will go no further than adults at time of Dagor Bragollach so Morwen and Rian are out for now)
Beren? (432-503): Son of Barahir. Last of the Band of 13, escaped his father and companions’ death. Waged a one-man war against Morgoth in Dorthonion for 4 years before fleeing to Doriath. Beloved of Luthien, undertook a quest to recover a Silmaril from Morgoth as a bride-price for Luthien at King Thingol’s behest. Killed by Carcharoth in Doriath, but resurrected alongside Luthien. Died (for real this time) in 503.
Baragund? (416-460): Son of Bregolas, father of Morwen. Killed by Orcs alongside his uncle.
Belegund? (420-460): Son of Bregolas, father of Rian. Killed by Orcs alongside his uncle.
One note: Adanel is not Beor's grandaughter. She should come from another family.

I'd like for Adanel and her parents to look like they are from the House of Hador. It will allow her to still bring that different perspective to her discussions with Andreth as well as suggest that the Houses of Beor and Hador have had dealings in the past.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
One note: Adanel is not Beor's grandaughter. She should come from another family.

I'd like for Adanel and her parents to look like they are from the House of Hador. It will allow her to still bring that different perspective to her discussions with Andreth as well as suggest that the Houses of Beor and Hador have had dealings in the past.
I misread the family tree.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Here are the family trees we are working from, as a reminder. Do let me know if anyone finds any errors/mistakes/issues!

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Based on the way the outlining of the first six episodes has gone, I don't think we have to make too many changes to the timeline or family trees. We *may* wind up moving the Council forward about 5-7 years (perhaps to FA 494), but that is the only change I foresee needing to make at this point in time. (That would shift Hador's birthdate forward if we move it)

Here is the Season Episode Outline:
 
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