Session 5-23: Casting Criteria - *special broadcast time*

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Right; she's equally as tall as her father, but she'll still be shorter than Caranthir.

'Tall for her people' doesn't necessarily translate as 'tall' (though we probably do have to consider that even a short man is unlikely to be just 5'3"). The most important trait for her, though, is not height, but commanding presence.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I'm a little surprised at having the Mouth of Sauron be a black woman, since the Mouth is heavily implied to be a Black Numenorean. Unless she's supposed to look like she's from the area?

By the way, was there a decision made on the names for the Haradrim noble family?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I guess they are two different mouths in two different times... it is not necessarily always a black numenorean male he chooses as his mouth.. though i also am wondering... if the mouth was over a hundred years old in 3019 TA... then he was not a young man at the time of the prequel story... does not mean he already was the mouth, but one wonders when and why then he forgot his name if he was not chosen very young...
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I think that the Mouth is of Black Numenorean descent, not actually an original Black Numenorean?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I guess they are two different mouths in two different times... it is not necessarily always a black numenorean male he chooses as his mouth.. though i also am wondering... if the mouth was over a hundred years old in 3019 TA... then he was not a young man at the time of the prequel story... does not mean he already was the mouth, but one wonders when and why then he forgot his name if he was not chosen very young...
It was definitely decided that there would be two Mouths and that it was a title. As for forgetting his name, it doesn’t take very long for somebody to forget their name, look at Kunta Kinte in Roots or Theon Greyjoy in Game of Thrones.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I think that the Mouth is of Black Numenorean descent, not actually an original Black Numenorean?
The Mouth is stated in Return of the King as one of the Black Numenoreans; likely not an original. The line about the Mouth taking up service when Barad-Dur rose again is a topic of debate since there are multiple points as to when the Dark Tower rose again.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
The Mouth is stated in Return of the King as one of the Black Numenoreans; likely not an original. The line about the Mouth taking up service when Barad-Dur rose again is a topic of debate since there are multiple points as to when the Dark Tower rose again.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here; I'm sorry if I'm being less clear than I should be. I assumed that we were talking about the First Mouth, that is whom I was referring to in my comment. But the comment does apply to both Mouths actually, as far as I can understand Coreys intentions they can have Black Numenorean descent, but it doesn't necessarily show in their appearance.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
Just to check, the casting criteria of the first mouth being a Blavk woman, is unrelated to the fact she is of Black Numenorean ancestors correct? Being Black is not tied to the Black Numenoreans, right? Just want to make sure we’re not accidentally walking into DND ‘Dark Elves’ territory
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Just to check, the casting criteria of the first mouth being a Blavk woman, is unrelated to the fact she is of Black Numenorean ancestors correct? Being Black is not tied to the Black Numenoreans, right? Just want to make sure we’re not accidentally walking into DND ‘Dark Elves’ territory
Right. So she's supposed to be black, her Black Numenorean ancestry doesn't show.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
I don’t know what Black Numenorean ancestry would be lol just wanted to make sure we weren’t casting Blavk actors for the roles of Black Numenoreans. But that doesn’t seem to be the case so that’s fine.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I don’t know what Black Numenorean ancestry would be lol just wanted to make sure we weren’t casting Blavk actors for the roles of Black Numenoreans. But that doesn’t seem to be the case so that’s fine.
No but the Black Numenoreans were apparently blond.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here; I'm sorry if I'm being less clear than I should be. I assumed that we were talking about the First Mouth, that is whom I was referring to in my comment. But the comment does apply to both Mouths actually, as far as I can understand Coreys intentions they can have Black Numenorean descent, but it doesn't necessarily show in their appearance.
Yes we’re talking about the First Mouth and I assumed that the term Black Numenoreans applied to their morality, not their ethnicity.
 

Rob Harding

Active Member
The term does but like dark elves in DND (and similar fantasy elements) it’s not great to have a people of bad morals, ostensibly bad guys, who are all black AND advertised as such in their name. Their race essentially denoting the fact they are bad is not a great thing and to be avoided. Just wanted to make sure that’s not what we were doing.

I think the decision has been to cast a Black woman as the first mouth which it great as we can cast a powerful black actress in a meaty role and her character’s lineage has thankfully zero to do with her villainous nature.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of Ar-Pharazon, the numenorean royal house and most Black numenoreans as being mostly of hadorian descend and many blondes among them
As well as Elendil and his people being mostly of beorian and Halethrim descend , having most of them being dark haired and grey eyed.

The books indicate this, but never state it clearly... yet there are such tendencies in the characters.We never see the original witchking and his fellows... i would like them as blonde beaus...
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
A reminder that our frame story is set in Harad, well to the south of Gondor. The decision is to have all the characters of Harad be black (of African descent). This includes any families with Numenorean blood - the Numenoreans were active in the region over 3,000 years previously, so at this point, they no longer look any different from their neighbors.

So, all 4 of our frame characters will need to be cast as black actors - the Mouth of Sauron, the Queen, and the two young adult princes. It was important to Corey Olsen that the Mouth of Sauron look to be of the same people as the residents of the seaside town in Harad that will serve as our 'Hobbiton-of-the-South,' while Gandalf is the clear outsider (based on appearance).

We have not yet made any decisions about the Nazgûl; their origin is at a different point in the history, so we may make different decisions then.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
A reminder that our frame story is set in Harad, well to the south of Gondor. The decision is to have all the characters of Harad be black (of African descent). This includes any families with Numenorean blood - the Numenoreans were active in the region over 3,000 years previously, so at this point, they no longer look any different from their neighbors.

So, all 4 of our frame characters will need to be cast as black actors - the Mouth of Sauron, the Queen, and the two young adult princes. It was important to Corey Olsen that the Mouth of Sauron look to be of the same people as the residents of the seaside town in Harad that will serve as our 'Hobbiton-of-the-South,' while Gandalf is the clear outsider (based on appearance).

We have not yet made any decisions about the Nazgûl; their origin is at a different point in the history, so we may make different decisions then.
So the Mouth is supposed to be from the area; I thought that the Mouth was from Umbar or somewhere northward.
 
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