Beren's equipment

[Odola]

I propose - among others - the use of atlatl's/propulseurs for both Beren's band and Beren himself.

http://www.parisetudiant.com/uploads/assets/evenements/recto_flyer/2019/09/2089284_jep-initiation-au-tir-au-propulseur-journees-du-patrimoine-2019.jpg

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Spear-throwers were used around the world (except Africa) at different times, and even if their use is documented for historic times and even partially still ongoing in America and Australia, it has also been used in the Paleolithic in Europe and the ancient examples found from Europe show some very interesting animal carvings.

Atlatl darts can be caried in a longer quiver: Atlatls and Quiver | . . . with 6' fletched spears referred … | Flickr

Spear-thrower - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Atlatls | Occoquan Paleotechnics Llc

Historical replica atlatls

www.occpaleo.com

Here some ancient European spear-throwers or their parts or reconstructions:

Mammoth spear thrower - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://donsmaps.com/images17/masdazilIMG_0851.jpg

https://donsmaps.com/images11/frmaIMG_1538bison.jpg

https://donsmaps.com/images11/frmaIMG_1539.jpg

https://donsmaps.com/images11/frmaIMG_1541bison.jpg

European Paleolithic Model | Atlatls

Inspired by a mammoth ivory piece from the site of La Madeleine, France. The original Ice Age spear thrower spur was carved into the shape of a hyena or calf. The handle was not found attached, so we created a test model with wood handle, and it has been working functionally well for years.

www.occpaleo.com

Faun aux L'oiseaux Propulseur | Atlatls

The famous Faoan aux l'oiseaux(fawn/bird) spear thrower was found in the cave of Mas d'Azil in the Pyrenees region of France. The occupations of the cave date to the Magdalenian period(12 to 17,000 years ago). It is considered to be one of the most finely carved paleolithic art pieces known...

www.occpaleo.com

https://donsmaps.com/images28/bisonsfightingatlatl.jpg

I think the use of propulseurs gives us an interestic semi-exotic dynamic both for group orc hunting as also for Beren in Nan Dungortheb against monsters and spiders.

The weapon is very ancient, it predates the bow and has been traditionally used againt bigger game.
Its use could mark the fact that Beren's story is "prehistoric" in nature to those of the 3rd Age, even if it has some Iron Age and later elements and technologies are already there in the story thanks to elves and dwarves - who naturally do not follow human technical development chronology.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/09a2d7_f53ea61b47aa44fe9255ccdb454a65f4~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_600,h_386,al_c,lg_1,q_80,enc_auto/09a2d7_f53ea61b47aa44fe9255ccdb454a65f4~mv2.jpg

https://image.jimcdn.com/app/cms/image/transf/dimension=450x1024:format=jpg/path/sdf66d39b4b9ebc9d/image/iaaf7aab1a3b1b1cd/version/1527933663/image.jpg

 

[Ange1e4e5]

We know some of Beren's equipment: a sword named Dagmor, possibly a bow for hunting. He would likely carry knives for harvesting plants, possibly a shorter cutting weapon for clearing foliage. Beren should probably know how to maintain his own weapons should they be damaged, shouldn't be completely in the dark about making weapons should he be in need of one.

 

[Odola]

We know some of Beren's equipment: a sword named Dagmor, possibly a bow for hunting. He would likely carry knives for harvesting plants, possibly a shorter cutting weapon for clearing foliage. Beren should probably know how to maintain his own weapons should they be damaged, shouldn't be completely in the dark about making weapons should he be in need of one.

About the sword: do we know how he gets it and when he looses it - as it is not passed down his blood line?

 

[Odola]

We know some of Beren's equipment: a sword named Dagmor, possibly a bow for hunting.

Angrist is another one of Beren's weapons - he seems to have gained this one during the "leap of Beren" from Curufin and looses it in Angband when trying to get the 2nd Silmaril - which seem interesting - give that it was a dwarven-made knife that has been conmissioned and owned by one of the Feanorians originally - so presumably predestined - by the Oath - to be a blade able to be used to gain a Silmaril:

Angrist

"...but Beren despoiled him of his gear and weapons, and took his knife, Angrist. That knife was made by Telchar of Nogrod, and hung sheathless by his side; iron it would cleave as if it were green wood." —The Silmarillion, Of Beren and Lúthien Angrist was a knife made by Telchar of Nogrod and...

lotr.fandom.com

Angrist

Angrist

second.wiki

 

[MithLuin]

Yes, we show Curufin obtaining the knife in Season 4. It was made by Telchar the dwarf (like Narsil). As the name implies, it can cut through iron. Curufin loses the knife to Beren at the same time that Celegorm loses Huan to Lúthien.

As for Dagmor, almost nothing is said about it, so the details can be determined to fit our story in Silm Film.

 

[Odola]

Yes, we show Curufin obtaining the knife in Season 4. It was made by Telchar the dwarf (like Narsil). As the name implies, it can cut through iron. Curufin loses the knife to Beren at the same time that Celegorm loses Huan to Lúthien.

As for Dagmor, almost nothing is said about it, so the details can be determined to fit our story in Silm Film.

Could it be broken in the fight against Carcharoth? Or maybe Beren would break it ceremonially - should we decide to show a scene where he abdicates his House of Bëor headship in Brethil before leaving for Angband?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Yes, we show Curufin obtaining the knife in Season 4. It was made by Telchar the dwarf (like Narsil). As the name implies, it can cut through iron. Curufin loses the knife to Beren at the same time that Celegorm loses Huan to Lúthien.

As for Dagmor, almost nothing is said about it, so the details can be determined to fit our story in Silm Film.

My head-canon is that it was buried with Beren, and is lost since nobody knows where he and Lúthien are buried.

 

[MithLuin]

Beren will need a weapon when he fights the Dwarves. So, as long as his sword is something he can use one handed, it might as well be that.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

The Alan Lee cover shows Beren with a sword (possibly Dagmor) on his left hip, a dagger on his right, and a longbow. Dagmor itself appears to be an arming sword judging by the hilt, though likely with some space to allow two hands if necessary.

 

[Halstein]

The Alan Lee cover shows Beren with a sword (possibly Dagmor) on his left hip, a dagger on his right, and a longbow. Dagmor itself appears to be an arming sword judging by the hilt, though likely with some space to allow two if necessary.

View attachment 4275

But no mail until after Beren visit Nargothrond.

 

[Odola]

The Alan Lee cover shows Beren with a sword (possibly Dagmor) on his left hip, a dagger on his right, and a longbow. Dagmor itself appears to be an arming sword judging by the hilt, though likely with some space to allow two if necessary.

View attachment 4275

Where did he get that fancy chainmail though? He has not been disarmed in Tol Sirion?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Where did he get that fancy chainmail though? He has not been disarmed in Tol Sirion?

Given the presence of Huan I would say this is after that point.

 

[Odola]

Given the presence of Huan I would say this is after that point.

That is true but still who armed him after escaping Tol Sirion?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

That is true but still who armed him after escaping Tol Sirion?

Something had to have survived the fall, as the prisoners there survive. That might explain where the gear comes from.

 

[Odola]

Something had to have survived the fall, as the prisoners there survive. That might explain where the gear comes from.

I do imagine Beren in rags in the dungeons. Sauron's armory having human sized equipment seems a little strange?

 

[Ange1e4e5]

I do imagine Beren in rags in the dungeons. Sauron's armory having human sized equipment seems a little strange?

Orcs come in various sizes; some are as small as hobbits and some like Boldog are 7-footers.

 

[MithLuin]

Also, it was an elf fortress first. No doubt things taken from the prisoners and old supplies are still...there.

Also, Halstein, any reason the army in Ladros would not have mail? Not saying Beren had to be wearing full mail when traversing Nan Dungortheb, but I wouldn't be surprised if the kit of the outlaws included mail. In other words, while Nargorthond could be a source of mail, it's not the only possibility here.

Beren is going to lose and gain clothing and other supplies throughout his journey. Based on the presence of (presumably) Angrist in that painting, the mail shirt could be something taken from the Fëanoreans as well.

 

[Odola]

Beren is going to lose and gain clothing and other supplies throughout his journey. Based on the presence of (presumably) Angrist in that painting, the mail shirt could be something taken from the Fëanoreans as well.

I think it is necessary to track this. What he starts out with, when he looses what, whan he gains or recovers something. So that it does all add up.

 

[Haerangil]

Items associated with beren (found on my rpg page, but principle sources un)nown...

• Barahir's Hand
• Bregor's Bow
• Curufin's Coat of Mail
• Grey Orc Helmet
• grey hauberk - made of Dwarvish craft in Nogrod
• Hide of Draugluin - Werewolf-hide
• Horn of Brethil
• Knife (Angrist) —
• Beren's principal items
  • Barahir's Hand
  • Bregor's Bow
  • Curufin's Coat of Mail
  • Grey Orc Helmet
  • grey hauberk - made of Dwarvish craft in Nogrod
  • Hide of Draugluin - Werewolf-hide
  • Horn of Brethil
  • Knife (Angrist) — (S. "Iron Cutter") black eog dagger made by Telchar of Nogrod. It cut iron easily (even Valinorean Iron, of which Morgoth's Crown was made). Originally in Curufin's possession, Beren took it and used it on his quest to secure the Jewels. The blade snapped when Beren attempted to cut a second Silmaril from the Iron Crown.
  • Great orcish Spear
  • Kitchen-Knife of Angband
  • Sword (Dagmor) — ("Slayer of Darkness") ithilnaur (mithril alloy) Bastard Sword. Like many enchanted Elvish blades, it glowed near Morgoth's creations. Beautifully made, it had no other powers.
  • wooden Club
• (S. "Iron Cutter") black eog dagger made by Telchar of Nogrod. It cut iron easily (even Valinorean Iron, of which Morgoth's Crown was made). Originally in Curufin's possession, Beren took it and used it on his quest to secure the Jewels. The blade snapped when Beren attempted to cut a second Silmaril from the Iron Crown.
• Great orcish Spear
• Kitchen-Knife of Angband
• Sword (Dagmor) — ("Slayer of Darkness") ithilnaur (mithril alloy) Bastard Sword. Like many enchanted Elvish blades, it glowed near Morgoth's creations. Beautifully made, it had no other powers.
• wooden Club

Do Barahirs men wear armor or not? I guess they do at last have access to mail, shields, helmets, blades, spears etc. But what do they actually use?

 

[Odola]

Items associated with beren (found on my rpg page, but principle sources un)nown...

• Barahir's Hand
• Bregor's Bow
• Curufin's Coat of Mail
• Grey Orc Helmet
• grey hauberk - made of Dwarvish craft in Nogrod
• Hide of Draugluin - Werewolf-hide
• Horn of Brethil
• Knife (Angrist) — (S. "Iron Cutter") black eog dagger made by Telchar of Nogrod. It cut iron easily (even Valinorean Iron, of which Morgoth's Crown was made). Originally in Curufin's possession, Beren took it and used it on his quest to secure the Jewels. The blade snapped when Beren attempted to cut a second Silmaril from the Iron Crown.
• Great orcish Spear
• Kitchen-Knife of Angband
• Sword (Dagmor) — ("Slayer of Darkness") ithilnaur (mithril alloy) Bastard Sword. Like many enchanted Elvish blades, it glowed near Morgoth's creations. Beautifully made, it had no other powers.
• wooden Club

Do Barahirs men wear armor or not? I guess they do at last have access to mail, shields, helmets, blades, spears etc. But what do they actually use?

- Horn of Brethil?

- He is not going around with Barahir's hand the whole time I do assume?

So when does Beren loose and (re-)gain his gear:

What does he have when he leaves for Ered Gorgoroth?
What when he arrives in Doriath - most of it gone, I do assume?
What does he have when he leaves Doriath?
What doeas he gain in Nargothrond?
What can he take with him when disguised as an orc?
What does he loose and recover in former Tol Sirion?
He gains the knive and what else from the Feanorians?
Can he resupply in Brethil?
What can he take with him when in disguise going to Angband?
He looses the Feanorian knife in Angband, but what else?
What does he still have when back in Doriath?
What does he take for the wolf hunt?
What does he have during his expedition against the dwarves?
What is he buried with?