Dwarves
- Thread starter Haakon
- Start date
Willem Dafoe is an excellent actor, and especially good for a not-overly-trustworthy character. He's the green goblin in Spiderman and the rogue FBI agent in Boondock Saints (among other things).
I am not sure what age ranges we should have in mind for actors for dwarves. Dwarves typically have a lifespan of 250 years, and Gimli was 139 years old when he was a member of the Fellowship (but 'too young' for the Quest for Erebor 77 years earlier when he was only 62. I would picture Gimli has a middle-aged looking dwarf - not white haired, but not to be played by someone in his 20s, either.
As for height, when you cast a taller, broader-shouldered actor and then use forced perspective to shrink him, it works better for maintaining dwarf build. Short and stocky might be good for hobbits, but isn't necessary for dwarves.
I am not sure what age ranges we should have in mind for actors for dwarves. Dwarves typically have a lifespan of 250 years, and Gimli was 139 years old when he was a member of the Fellowship (but 'too young' for the Quest for Erebor 77 years earlier when he was only 62. I would picture Gimli has a middle-aged looking dwarf - not white haired, but not to be played by someone in his 20s, either.
As for height, when you cast a taller, broader-shouldered actor and then use forced perspective to shrink him, it works better for maintaining dwarf build. Short and stocky might be good for hobbits, but isn't necessary for dwarves.
Haerangil
Well-Known Member
thats why i said we maybe should take in mind that our first age dwarves had somewhat longer lifespans...
dwarves are grown up by an age about fourty, become parents about an age of 100 and are considered old at an average of 250. the oldest dwarf was dwalin,wasn't he, who reached an age of 340...
so if in the first age more dwarves reached such a high age we could use gamil and telchar at earlier times... at last gamil zirak was nicknamed gamil the old so he should have reached a high age as should mim.
if they weren't much older than 250 we'd may have to invent standins for the earlier times.
dwarves are grown up by an age about fourty, become parents about an age of 100 and are considered old at an average of 250. the oldest dwarf was dwalin,wasn't he, who reached an age of 340...
so if in the first age more dwarves reached such a high age we could use gamil and telchar at earlier times... at last gamil zirak was nicknamed gamil the old so he should have reached a high age as should mim.
if they weren't much older than 250 we'd may have to invent standins for the earlier times.
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It is possible that Dwalin's extreme age is a typo (and he was meant to be 100 years younger at his death), but also possible that dwarves have an extended old age so that some can linger that long.
The main events of the First Age happen in two 'batches' - all the set up at the beginning in the first 20 years, and then all the key events from Dagor Bragollach in 455 to the end of the Age in ~590 (the timeline is quite sketchy at the end, but you get the idea). I think that the dwarves who will be needed in the second batch can be met later in Season 4. And any dwarves from the first batch should be dead after Season 3.
Mim should not be in the first batch - he should not be an original petty-dwarf. Rather, he and his sons should be their last surviving descendants. They can have similar names, that's fine.
So, we can divide our dwarves into 'Season 3-4 dwarves' and 'Seasons 4-9 dwarves' (or however long it takes us to get to the War of Wrath). Season 4 covers too long a range of time to keep any dwarves alive from beginning to end of it; after that, the seasons deal with shorter time increments and the mortality of dwarves isn't really an issue.
The main events of the First Age happen in two 'batches' - all the set up at the beginning in the first 20 years, and then all the key events from Dagor Bragollach in 455 to the end of the Age in ~590 (the timeline is quite sketchy at the end, but you get the idea). I think that the dwarves who will be needed in the second batch can be met later in Season 4. And any dwarves from the first batch should be dead after Season 3.
Mim should not be in the first batch - he should not be an original petty-dwarf. Rather, he and his sons should be their last surviving descendants. They can have similar names, that's fine.
So, we can divide our dwarves into 'Season 3-4 dwarves' and 'Seasons 4-9 dwarves' (or however long it takes us to get to the War of Wrath). Season 4 covers too long a range of time to keep any dwarves alive from beginning to end of it; after that, the seasons deal with shorter time increments and the mortality of dwarves isn't really an issue.
Marielle
Well-Known Member
Not saying we need to do this, exactly, but I actually thought the age ranges in PJ's Hobbit films made sense. I probably would have cast Fili and Kili with actors already over 30, but only just -- and the Kili problem was more the pretty-boy effect of Aidan Turner, but that's a whole other issue.
I think our "juvenile" dwarves (a flashback to Gimli not being allowed on the Quest, or a scene with young apprentices, etc) could be played by actors in their mid to late 20's, mature dwarves 30's-50's, and venerable dwarves 60's-80's. As much as I like Armitage as an actor, I'm not sure I buy PJ's reasoning for casting someone so young for the 200-ish Thorin -- I think we can find older actors in good enough shape for an action scene.
amysrevenge
Well-Known Member
I sort of bought a younger looking Thorin in the same way (but different) as we get a younger looking Aragorn - the blood of Durin extending the youth and vigour of his descendants, that sort of thing.
But anyway - yes we would need two "batches" of dwarfs - one now-ish for their arrival on the scene (and perhaps one or two fo those for S1 at Aule's work bench), and another later for their contributions to the ending of the First Age.
But anyway - yes we would need two "batches" of dwarfs - one now-ish for their arrival on the scene (and perhaps one or two fo those for S1 at Aule's work bench), and another later for their contributions to the ending of the First Age.
Convincing any actress to wear a beard on screen might be challenging.
Well, based on Friday's discussion, it looks like there is a strong desire to have Mim be present in Season 3, making him well over 500 years old when he meets Turin. The decision was made to give him a personal beef about the founding of Menegroth, so...he and Beleg will meet early on. (Either that, or Mim is going to have a son named Mim who looks just like him to explain the age gap
).
Well, based on Friday's discussion, it looks like there is a strong desire to have Mim be present in Season 3, making him well over 500 years old when he meets Turin. The decision was made to give him a personal beef about the founding of Menegroth, so...he and Beleg will meet early on. (Either that, or Mim is going to have a son named Mim who looks just like him to explain the age gap
).
Marielle
Well-Known Member
You might be surprised. Cate Blanchett apparently asked to be cast as a female dwarf extra, because she thought it'd be fun to have the beard.
We also can tweak that "females have beards" thing. That, for me, leans towards ideas that work in print, but don't translate well to screen. We can obscure the differences between male and female in other ways, to make it challenging for non-dwarves to tell the difference, in other ways if we need.
That... could be comical, at least if we make it two or three generations. Then again, there's something about a "Mim son of Mim son of Mim" holding onto an ancient grudge that's the definition of petty, and so might work.\
Well, based on Friday's discussion, it looks like there is a strong desire to have Mim be present in Season 3, making him well over 500 years old when he meets Turin. The decision was made to give him a personal beef about the founding of Menegroth, so...he and Beleg will meet early on. (Either that, or Mim is going to have a son named Mim who looks just like him to explain the age gap
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
What's he been in over the past 10 years?
Lee Arenberg
Age: 55
Height: 5'4"
Roles: Pintel in Pirates of the Caribbean
With Mackenzie Crook (Ragetti)
Just a heads up that tomorrow's session will be focusing largely on the 'early' dwarves, so we might get some ideas of what the hosts are envisioning for the dwarves of Belegost and Nogrod. I also tossed the 'do female dwarves have beards?' question onto the slide, so we'll see if they address that.