Feanoreans

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Celegorm, Curufin, and Caranthir are definitely the troublemakers and 'most guilty' of the sons of Fëanor. The twins never seem to do much of anything, and thus nothing particularly bad. Maglor and Maedhros both have redeeming qualities and are seen to struggle with the implications of the Oath.

The three middle brothers, though.....

I don't like to spend too much time figuring out which one is the worst - they all have some pretty serious downsides, and ranking them is just a question of which flaws you consider more serious.

Caranthir is the proudest, so he is unrepentently haughty. He says the types of things that make his older brothers facepalm, because that just kills diplomacy after he opens his mouth. He can't hide his scorn for the ugliness of the dwarves. He acts completely surprised that Haleth was able to fight off the orcs on her own. He's the one who makes the alliance with the Men who betray them. But, at the end of the day, he doesn't seem overly malicious - just bad-tempered from birth and not very good at making friends. His family puts up with him because they have to, but you don't see him winning friendships. There is the least change in him...possibly because he has less far to fall, but also just because he doesn't get progressively worse or anything. He was always that way, and the Oath didn't change that.

Curufin has his father's skill for oratory, but also a sense of ambition that is maybe not out of place in a younger son who has been denied leadership and realms of his own his whole life. He is the mastermind behind the kidnap-Luthien-and-take-over-Nargothrond plot. He is *way* out of line there, and very much leaves Finrod to die. There is a reason his son disowns him after that fiasco, and not just because it was plot convenient. Post 5th battle, he seems to be driving the Fëanorean decisions more than Maedhros. And he clearly knows Celegorm well enough to be the perfect accomplice.

Celegorm is strong and beautiful and can talk to every animal in existence. He would not be a candidate for the worst of his brothers, as he is more a person who reacts in the moment rather than plots out evil, except....except for that incident when he tried to force Lúthien to marry him. That's pretty egregious, and not surprising that Huan abandoned him at that point. There's also at least some indication that he was the brother who most wanted to attack Doriath to get the silmaril.

So...pick your poison with them.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Celegorm, Curufin, and Caranthir are definitely the troublemakers and 'most guilty' of the sons of Fëanor. The twins never seem to do much of anything, and thus nothing particularly bad. Maglor and Maedhros both have redeeming qualities and are seen to struggle with the implications of the Oath.

The three middle brothers, though.....

I don't like to spend too much time figuring out which one is the worst - they all have some pretty serious downsides, and ranking them is just a question of which flaws you consider more serious.

Caranthir is the proudest, so he is unrepentently haughty. He says the types of things that make his older brothers facepalm, because that just kills diplomacy after he opens his mouth. He can't hide his scorn for the ugliness of the dwarves. He acts completely surprised that Haleth was able to fight off the orcs on her own. He's the one who makes the alliance with the Men who betray them. But, at the end of the day, he doesn't seem overly malicious - just bad-tempered from birth and not very good at making friends. His family puts up with him because they have to, but you don't see him winning friendships. There is the least change in him...possibly because he has less far to fall, but also just because he doesn't get progressively worse or anything. He was always that way, and the Oath didn't change that.

Curufin has his father's skill for oratory, but also a sense of ambition that is maybe not out of place in a younger son who has been denied leadership and realms of his own his whole life. He is the mastermind behind the kidnap-Luthien-and-take-over-Nargothrond plot. He is *way* out of line there, and very much leaves Finrod to die. There is a reason his son disowns him after that fiasco, and not just because it was plot convenient. Post 5th battle, he seems to be driving the Fëanorean decisions more than Maedhros. And he clearly knows Celegorm well enough to be the perfect accomplice.

Celegorm is strong and beautiful and can talk to every animal in existence. He would not be a candidate for the worst of his brothers, as he is more a person who reacts in the moment rather than plots out evil, except....except for that incident when he tried to force Lúthien to marry him. That's pretty egregious, and not surprising that Huan abandoned him at that point. There's also at least some indication that he was the brother who most wanted to attack Doriath to get the silmaril.

So...pick your poison with them.
Perhaps Huan abandoned Celegorm because of how far he had fallen, that he would willingly try to rape Luthien by forcing her into a marriage.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, probably.

The entire story of Lúthien is that she is so breathtakingly beautiful that everyone can't help but react to her...but it is a test of character whether they react with lust or love, selfish possession or selflessly letting her go. Celegorm...clearly fails this test, and goes very possessive lock-her-up over it. Huan passes the test, loves her for who she is, and helps her to escape.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I don't get the impression that Celebrimbor disowned his father. He put the star of the House of Feanor* on the Doors of Durin, admittedly after his father and all his uncles were dead and/or gone. I don't think that Eldar necessarily even have a concept of disowning your family, or adopting a non-relative into your family. He certainly told his father in no uncertain terms that he wanted nothing to do with him and his ever again, and I want him to get a heroic I Am NOT Going With You speech when he proves he's got some of his father's talent for language and none of his nastiness.

*Which is annoyingly not the same symbol as the colorful Silmaril-esque heraldic sign JRRT made for Feanor. Arrrgh.

Other comments, in no particular order because I had to rush off to work while leaving my other post unfinished:



I don't think Maedhros ever said they couldn't be kings of anything. He gave up his claim to the High Kingship, but I always thought they were all kings of their respective realms. At least until those realms started getting conquered and they had to take refuge with brothers or cousins.

Curufin is the "chief inheritor of his father's skills" and the most prominent Elven linguistic authority on Khuzdul, so I think he's very skilled as a linguist, smith, and artisan. We never see him construct anything awesome, but he must have.

Maglor is definitly not a good leader. But I can't picture him as "gentle" or really understand why people think that. He is a poet and less obsessed with war than his brothers -- perhaps cooler-headed, or quieter. But definitely a dangerous warrior. He joined the Oath without hesitation (though I still don't think it was premeditated on the 7 sons' parts) and isn't singled out as reluctant or repentant until after the Second Kinslaying. It's up for debate whether he was reluctant to attack Doriath (Maedhros was a little reluctant, at least, but so not in diplomatic mode when he sent that obnoxious, arrogant, threatening letter to Thingol). Those two do not become repentant until after the Second Kinslaying.

If it is going to come up at all in the frame story before the Third Kinslaying chapter, I have reasons to think that Elros and Elrond were fostered by Maedhros, not by Maglor.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Obviously, the entire end of the First Age is very sketchy, and the details we have are rather less than set in stone. We can likely fight for non-published-Silmarillion versions of the story when we get to that point.

I certainly don't think of Maglor as gentle. I think that some people see that he is an artist, and we are told that he composed the Noldolante...right when the story is talking about that, so it seems as though he has regrets first. But obviously he wasn't composing while it was happening, and it was almost definitely a *much* later composition (at the very least, after his father's death, and possibly much later). So, yes, I think that there is a very weak basis for seeing him as the 'kinder, gentler' son of Fëanor. He was, among other things, a warrior who was wounded with his brothers in the fifth battle. And someone who took part in four kinslayings. And I completely agree that he makes a terrible leader. He's great at backing Maedhros up...not so great when Maedhros is out of the picture.

Personally, I think Celegorm was behind the wording of the demand to Dior for the silmaril. ;)

Curufin's desire to steal Nargothrond from Finrod and Orodreth is very petty, and outrageous, as he'd been a guest there. That had to come from somewhere, though, so I take it he never got over Maedhros passing on the High Kingship. And...while he was no doubt lord of his lands, was he ever a 'king' in his own right? There is something very ugly and grasping going on there, so he has to have felt denied...something...to have gotten to that point.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I guess being Dispossessed Forever is hard on somebody of overweening hubris. I can imagine some of the Sons of Feanor getting on Maedhros' case after that : "What do you think Father would say!?" Missing the point that Father was Crazy.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Yes, I think by the time that Maedhros returns from his captivity, he knows that Fëanor was a netball, but feels compelled to fulfill his oath nonetheless.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
So how about a new suggestion? Marcus Vanco - nominated for 'character' according to Richol's List (yes that was a link right there) - but I think he could be a Fëanorean. I don't know his age (apparently nobody does). I haven't seen him act.
upload_2017-11-6_11-51-1.jpegupload_2017-11-6_11-51-10.jpeg
 

Richol Richards

Well-Known Member
So how about a new suggestion? Marcus Vanco - nominated for 'character' according to Richol's List (yes that was a link right there) - but I think he could be a Fëanorean. I don't know his age (apparently nobody does). I haven't seen him act.
View attachment 1342View attachment 1343

You know what, he does have a slight resemblance to Ben Barnes...so I'll go one further and suggest if we cast Barnes as Curufin maybe Vanco could be Caranthir? I could buy those two as brothers. I actually kind of really like the idea of Vanco as a Feanorean, though I haven't seen him in anything either.

Edit: And if not Caranthir, maybe Celebrimbor. Curufin's son or younger brother....either works. I will say he's the most satisfying candidate I've seen for Caranthir so far, though (ruddiness issue aside). My best guess at his age is 25..26ish. Too young?
 
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Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
You know what, he does have a slight resemblance to Ben Barnes...so I'll go one further and suggest if we cast Barnes as Curufin maybe Vanco could be Caranthir? I could buy those two as brothers. I actually kind of really like the idea of Vanco as a Feanorean, though I haven't seen him in anything either.

Edit: And if not Caranthir, maybe Celebrimbor. Curufin's son or younger brother....either works. I will say he's the most satisfying candidate I've seen for Caranthir so far, though (ruddiness issue aside). My best guess at his age is 25..26ish. Too young?
Yeah he could be Caranthir. I think he maybe looks a little too nice, but it could work. (And he'd have to dye his hair darker) (Plus add ruddiness)
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Kyle Soller
Height: 5’10”
Age: 34
Roles, Baron Clifford in The Hollow Crown: The War of the Roses, Francis Poldark in Poldark


 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
We haven't discussed the twins for a while. I guess it's partly because they're a bit anonymous. Anyway, I'm beginning to like the idea of casting the Sprouse twins. upload_2017-12-11_12-8-1.jpeg
 
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Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Well after researching hair color genetics (what little is known of them) and trying to diagram the Elven royals' hair color inheritance, I think it's plausible that Celegorm was blond or light brown. Possibly. There are some unknowns. But assuming that you get redhead Elves more-or-less the same way as redhead Humans (a light color + red) then if you take the lightest shade of red Feanorian and subtract the red, whatever color that leaves is more-or-less the lightest Celegorm could be.

It's also plausible he had dark brown hair, though.

(I also concluded that although pink may exist as a very rare elf hair color (from inheriting silver + red from both parents), it is very unlikely for any of Feanor's sons to have pink hair. I'd rather assume none did.)
 
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